6 Speed Manual or 5EAT Spec.B?

Posts specific to the 3.0 litre NA H6 engine

6 Speed Manual or 5EAT Spec.B?

Postby Tresidder17 » Sat May 20, 2017 3:56 pm

Hey guys,

I'm looking to buy my first Liberty (3.0 spec B) and can't decide between buying a 6 speed manual or 5 speed auto as I don't have the means to test drive both of them.

If you have either of transmission, I'd like to know what you think of it.

Some of the questions I have are:
- Which transmission can take more abuse? (this might be a controversial idea but i would like to do lots of work to H6 motor and dont want to destroy the transmission)
- How responsive are the paddle shifters in the auto?
- How well does the auto transmission perform without manual shift input?
- Is the manual nice to use? (e.g. is it smooth or clunky and awkward to find gears)
- How do both perform on track or in hills?
- Do the have similar top speeds? (I hear the manual has a much faster 0-100 time)

any other thoughts you have on either of the transmissions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks everyone


Disclaimer: this is my first post on this forum and im not even sure im doing it in the right place so please go easy on me ahah
Tresidder17
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:11 pm
Location: Adelaide
Car: MY07 3.0 Spec.B 5EAT
Profile URL: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=35209

Re: 6 Speed Manual or 5EAT Spec.B?

Postby Bazwald » Sat May 20, 2017 7:10 pm

Manual's definitely faster.
My shift was pretty sloppy, but Corgi Werx do a pretty good rejuvenation kit which fixes worn bushes. I reckon Manual from my experience is a bit more durable but others may disagree. I did have a few issues with my transmission, with both the centre diff (pretty common I think) and the transfer case, but I got mine for a bit cheaper because of these.
-Seb.
User avatar
Bazwald
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:13 am
Location: Hobart, Tas
Car: MY05 Manual GT
Real name: Sebastian

Re: 6 Speed Manual or 5EAT Spec.B?

Postby applegeek897 » Sat May 20, 2017 9:28 pm

Get the manual, that is all.
Daily: '00 Daihatsu Cuore "Kelly" - Build Thread -
Project / Weekender: '05 Subaru Liberty 3.0R-B Wagon - Build Thread -
Motorcycle: '14 Triumph Street Triple 660 - Build Thread -
User avatar
applegeek897
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:02 am
Location: Sydney, NSW
Car: 05' 3R-B Wagon, 00' Daihatsu Cuore
Real name: James
Profile URL: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=31247

Re: 6 Speed Manual or 5EAT Spec.B?

Postby alexeiwoody » Sat May 20, 2017 10:27 pm

Tresidder17 wrote:Hey guys,

I'm looking to buy my first Liberty (3.0 spec B) and can't decide between buying a 6 speed manual or 5 speed auto as I don't have the means to test drive both of them.

If you have either of transmission, I'd like to know what you think of it.

Some of the questions I have are:
- Which transmission can take more abuse? (this might be a controversial idea but i would like to do lots of work to H6 motor and dont want to destroy the transmission)
- How responsive are the paddle shifters in the auto?
- How well does the auto transmission perform without manual shift input?
- Is the manual nice to use? (e.g. is it smooth or clunky and awkward to find gears)
- How do both perform on track or in hills?
- Do the have similar top speeds? (I hear the manual has a much faster 0-100 time)


5EAT:
- is faster in a straight line, through the hills/twisties they're about the same
- Nicer to drive as a daily, or in traffic
- Paddles are fairly responsive. Auto/Drive mode is decent - if you buy the postFl Liberty with SI drive. The preFl without SI drive aren't as nice - have to use manual mode to have as much fun. Paddles are also much nicer than steering wheel buttons
- Without a VB mod (modifying the control mechanism (aka Valve Body) to run more pressure between clutch-packs , similar effect to a better clutch on a manual) or at least a good ECU tune, shifts can be a little sluggish at WOT.

Manual:
- Feels faster, feels more engaged, but more effort to use
- One of the best manual gearboxes available in this price range ($8-20k).
- Potentially cheaper and easier to build for serious power. For up to 250kwatw (double factory power) - they're about the same cost to modify (clutch for manual, Valve Body mod for auto), if you're aiming for 300kw or above - the auto will need better clutch-packs and some additional work...
- Manual gets more "respect" from manual enthusiasts (most of whom haven't owned a well modified auto or DSG).


Just realised you're looking at an H6 - without a turbo, you won't ever hit those numbers, so at worst (not necessary, but awesome) - expect to to pay about $1000 (+$500 for complete fluid change and labour) for a valve body mod for an auto, and you'll have one of the crispest, sharpest shifting Subaru autos in the country (not enough people have these :) ). Really miles over a stock auto or anything an ECU tune can do. Although a good ECU tune is very helpful to an auto.





TL; DR.

Both are great boxes in their own areas, auto will really shine with a VB mod, just like manual will really shine with a good clutch. Costs about the same. Auto is effortless to drive (big ++ for 90-95% of daily driving), Manual "feels" a little more impressive (in the 5-10% you might really flog it).
Running no. of weeks without breaking something in the lib: 0
No. of things still to fix in in the lib: 43
User avatar
alexeiwoody
 
Posts: 1897
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:47 pm
Location: Melbourne
Car: MY07 LibGT 5EAT
Real name: Alexei

Re: 6 Speed Manual or 5EAT Spec.B?

Postby 5ittingduck » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:36 am

Depends also on the use of the car.
I use mine as a Grand Tourer style vehicle, and the auto is great for this mode.
Si drive is a big advantage.
Go for a manual if you are more serious about track work.
User avatar
5ittingduck
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:08 am
Location: Wynyard, Tasmania
Car: 2007 Liberty 3.0R - B Wagon
Real name: Grant

Re: 6 Speed Manual or 5EAT Spec.B?

Postby Recal256 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:42 am

Hexamod VB Kit? Who does these in Sydney?
User avatar
Recal256
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:28 am
Location: Seven Hills
Car: MY08 3.0RB Raptor S/C, MCA's
Real name: Richard

Re: 6 Speed Manual or 5EAT Spec.B?

Postby Tresidder17 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:28 am

Thankyou everybody for the input

Alexeiwoody, you've said that both are equally fast in a straight line. Carsales claims the manual can go 0-100 in 6.9sec but the auto takes 8.2sec. Do these numbers not account for the time it takes to shift gears in the manual?

Does anyone have a link to the valve body mod so i can have a better look at what it is?

Thanks guys
Tresidder17
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:11 pm
Location: Adelaide
Car: MY07 3.0 Spec.B 5EAT
Profile URL: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=35209

Re: 6 Speed Manual or 5EAT Spec.B?

Postby scottb721 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:04 pm

I prefer manual cars but my 5EAT is loads of fun to drive.
08 3.0 spec B
User avatar
scottb721
 
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:39 pm
Location: Nelson Bay / Newcastle NSW
Car: 2008 3.0R spec B auto sedan
Real name: Scott

Re: 6 Speed Manual or 5EAT Spec.B?

Postby alexeiwoody » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:42 pm

Tresidder17 wrote:Thankyou everybody for the input

Alexeiwoody, you've said that both are equally fast in a straight line. Carsales claims the manual can go 0-100 in 6.9sec but the auto takes 8.2sec. Do these numbers not account for the time it takes to shift gears in the manual?

Does anyone have a link to the valve body mod so i can have a better look at what it is?

Thanks guys


I said "Auto is faster", not that they're equal. As for carsales - how do you think a same weight/same engined car can have a whole second difference in acceleration, when the auto changes gears quicker and doesn't lose torque during the shift? Whoever tested it would have absolutely dropped the clutch and launched in the manual and then just rolled off the line in the auto, instead of brake boosting and launching. Silly and inaccurate. And let's not forget that one has longer gears and less shifting - the 6 speed is not a straight line performance box.

Compare all the 1/4 times on this forum and you'll see at least a few 250kw autos, on stock engines running low 12s, while 320kw+ forged internal, manual libs are struggling to break 12.5s.

Kewish Auto in Melbourne are the best to speak to about Valve body mods.
Running no. of weeks without breaking something in the lib: 0
No. of things still to fix in in the lib: 43
User avatar
alexeiwoody
 
Posts: 1897
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:47 pm
Location: Melbourne
Car: MY07 LibGT 5EAT
Real name: Alexei

Re: 6 Speed Manual or 5EAT Spec.B?

Postby jp928 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:00 pm

Seems to me the thing not mentioned here is that the H6 has less low end torque than a 2.5T, and with a 6mt box you will be changing gears a lot more - I have experience in both. Of you enjoy lots of gear changing, go for a 6mt/H6. If not...H6+5EAT, or consider a 2.5T. A vigorously driven H6 with use more fuel than a 2.5T in my experience.
I do not rate an H6 with 6mt as a tow vehicle at all - expect regular clutch changes.
I suggest you tell us more about your major driving scenarios
jp 08 gtb 6mt wagon.
jp928
 
Posts: 961
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:27 am
Location: Melbourne
Car: 08 gtb 6mt wagon

Re: 6 Speed Manual or 5EAT Spec.B?

Postby Tresidder17 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:19 pm

Alexeiwoody, I absolutely agree with you on what you said about their 0-100 times. Having such wildly different times does not make sense and i thought it would be best to ask in case i was missing something, I agree that it is likely to be very inaccurate.

jp928, you are right about the lack of low end torque. I've owned my 5eat for 6+ months now and love it. however i havent driven a 6mt to get an opinion on it and im not desperate to try a 6mt as im quite happy with the 5eat and dont want to ruin it for myself haha. As for the 2.5T, its not really an option for me as I'm on P2s in south australia which means most turbo cars are banned.
Tresidder17
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:11 pm
Location: Adelaide
Car: MY07 3.0 Spec.B 5EAT
Profile URL: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=35209

Re: 6 Speed Manual or 5EAT Spec.B?

Postby jp928 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:47 pm

Crazy about turbo being banned for P2s - the 2.5T is, according to published specs, only 4Kw more than an H6. When you say 'most', is it worth investigating if a 2.5T is banned?
Just looked it up - Liberty GT is a no goer! Also I note 'post 1994 Porsches' are banned. So a 350hp 928 (1992-5) is OK, as is a 930 turbo and lots of other very fast models. Crazy stuff.
jp 08 gtb 6mt wagon
jp928
 
Posts: 961
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:27 am
Location: Melbourne
Car: 08 gtb 6mt wagon

Re: 6 Speed Manual or 5EAT Spec.B?

Postby Tresidder17 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:36 pm

yeah unfortunately the 2.5T is banned. I think the general rule is that turbo cars that use a turbo for efficiency rather than performance are allowed even though some of those vehicles can still be quite fast.
Tresidder17
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:11 pm
Location: Adelaide
Car: MY07 3.0 Spec.B 5EAT
Profile URL: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=35209


Return to 3.0R & 3.6R engine specific

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests