Increasing Performance of the H6

[fanofspecb]

".....Gotta love the smell of E85 in the morning....."

Caltex - Moorebank
Caltex - Casula
United - Yagoona
United - Bass Hill

Does anyone know of E85 availability in the Illawarra?

[BillyCorgi]

Does anyone know of E85 availability in the Illawarra?

Heathcote appears to be the furthest south Caltex servo for EFlex
Nothing on the United front.

[cpitts]

WELL!

As someone who's about to go down the path of purchase of a H6 3.6l after coming from a lightly modified 2.5GT-B, it looks like there's fuck all real facts here and back to the ~1998 days of WRX/Subaru turbo tuning myths and hyperbole. This thread is exactly what was around 17 years ago with people claiming one thing or another and all sorts of massive numbers with stories of grenade engines, etc. from too many numbers. It may as well be UniChip and PowerChip all over again, just with a laptop and a tune.

I see there's a couple of dyno charts with large numbers, which is great, but they laregely come from force inducing an NA engine (obvious power gains).

So, the 3.6 H6 produces 191kW out of the box tuned for 91 and has a 10.5:1 compression ratio but it's mated to a CVT.

I'm a dyno charts and absolute before/after comparison person. I'll happily make mods that add either throttle response or absolute power, both are targets for a responsive car as well as a quick car.

My current 07 GT-B with 6MT is making ~158kW ATW on the GotITRex dyno with power that's delivered in a pretty linear fashion up to 5500rpm.

I know different vendors have no doubt fitted parts and done all the tuning tests to see the gains. Why don't people have this information so people can know exactly what happens when you make these changes? Back to back dyno's, real numbers, real information.

Or is this something that I'm going to do and simply expose the real info for the community...... again?

I have no vendor alliance, just a need to qualify the science in this stuff. The engine's an air pump, that's all, lack of forcing makes the gains much smaller, but still there to be had.... it's whether it's worth it or not.

[dr20t]

Chris whilst I absolutely agree that theres a case for history being repeated with claims etc, I challenge the notion that mods and their net affect haven't positively been identified by alot of people on this forum.

In fact I would go as far as saying this is one forum I've been part of that has alot of statements underpinned by experience or fact and not just regurgitated crap.

I for one have always strived to share my findings (good and bad) in the hope of helping others.

Keen to see your findings, nonetheless.

Keep in mind - the path less trodden.... You will face some bs claims and advice from so called "experts". My honest advice is - compare whatever claims are to established engineering principles and think about its effect on airflow, VE and torque / hp.

Mick

[cpitts]

Agree Mick.

btw, 'tis Craig.

If you have some pointers to before and after dyno charts for independant testing of things like:
- headers (Raptor seems the most common and, honestly, will be what I bolt on)
- mufflers (Something straight though, even good old hot-dog style for raw comparison)
- intake (seems mixed activity out there)
- cams (yet to see anything here)
- reflash (fuel from 91 -> 98)

Also, matching charts of IDC along the way so you can actually see when it runs out of injectors and AFM scale limits to see when you need to address the intake side.

I've been down the path less trodden far too many times to let the nay-sayers get to me. Coming from a science background, it's all just testing and results. No emotion or marketting required. Makes life a bit more simple on this stuff.

I'm not looking at going down the supercharger/turbo path yet. This is a long term daily for the wife that needs to be resellable down the track.

[dr20t]

Sorry mate - have called you Chris before!

My advice:

Don't touch the intake
Don't touch the cams
Don't touch the internals or non-exhaust bolt ons at all, infact

I wouldn't reference idc as a measure of performance. Too many variables here.

The most time. I repeat the most time - should be spent on your tune. This is where you will see the most benefits. Pick your tuner wisely. I will be updating the avcs tuning thread soon, but in a nutshell, not many tuners in my belief truly understand and know how to tune the avcs setup (and variable lift control in the case of the 3.6).

Good luck

Mick

[cpitts]

Thanks Mick. Absolutely no offense taken from the wrong name thing.

Great info on the internals and intake. Certainly not looking to use IDC as a perf measure, more-so as a preventative measure for when they run out.

Airflow in is as good as any reference.

Looking at your build thread, it seems you've kept the well worn path of the 207 which helps with a fair bit of prior knowledge.

I'll PM about the tuners. Any public comment on this is like petrol on top of a napalm fire.

[KiDo_Tuning]

The most time. I repeat the most time - should be spent on your tune. This is where you will see the most benefits. Pick your tuner wisely. I will be updating the avcs tuning thread soon, but in a nutshell, not many tuners in my belief truly understand and know how to tune the avcs setup (and variable lift control in the case of the 3.6).

Good luck

Mick

FYI: No Variable Valve lift in the 3.6L engine

[KiDo_Tuning]

Thanks Mick. Absolutely no offense taken from the wrong name thing.

Great info on the internals and intake. Certainly not looking to use IDC as a perf measure, more-so as a preventative measure for when they run out.

Airflow in is as good as any reference.

Looking at your build thread, it seems you've kept the well worn path of the 207 which helps with a fair bit of prior knowledge.

I'll PM about the tuners. Any public comment on this is like petrol on top of a napalm fire.

3.6L uses 333cc injectors from factory(same as FB25 and the 2015+ FB20) so you will not run out of fuel flow on 98 ever. Stock tune has 10.6:1 AFRs so you will find a tune will use less fuel than stock as far as IDC% goes

EZ36Fuel.png (78.64 KiB) Viewed 3138 times

This is stock Gen 5 H6 Fuel map as an example.

[cpitts]

10.6!!!!! Holy hell that's a FAT mixture!!!

Is it being used to cool the engine or is it just an ultra conservative mixture to allow for extremely bad fuel and high load (towing) conditions?

[KiDo_Tuning]

10.6!!!!! Holy hell that's a FAT mixture!!!

Is it being used to cool the engine or is it just an ultra conservative mixture to allow for extremely bad fuel and high load (towing) conditions?

That is at 6400 redline, which if you were towing I think you would be sadistic to be using that part of the power band to tow but the car sees that engine load in stock form so it could be just laziness on the part of Subaru not wanting to put in extra columns to account for extra load. Will hit over 2.25g/rev easily in that region

If you think Gen 5 is fat... wait until you see Gen 6

[Liam_Mangs]

Hi Guys,

Im currently in the process of buying a MY07 Lib 3.0R Spec. B 6 Spd Manual Wagon.
I've read countless arguments on here about how to improve the performance of these cars. I've done the research about Raptor headers, new exhaust system and Matt from KiDo tunes. Im pretty sure that these are the best ways to go to get the extra power and drivability (not to sure on the Raptor Air ram as I've heard they can be a waste of money).
I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with these? and what sort of power did you make with these done?
Any help would be great!
Probably the best person to answer me would be Matt!

Cheers!

[Swipez]

Hi Guys,

Im currently in the process of buying a MY07 Lib 3.0R Spec. B 6 Spd Manual Wagon.
I've read countless arguments on here about how to improve the performance of these cars. I've done the research about Raptor headers, new exhaust system and Matt from KiDo tunes. Im pretty sure that these are the best ways to go to get the extra power and drivability (not to sure on the Raptor Air ram as I've heard they can be a waste of money).
I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with these? and what sort of power did you make with these done?
Any help would be great!
Probably the best person to answer me would be Matt!

Cheers!

Hi mate, if you read anything on this thread, your questions would have all been answered. That was the whole purpose of this thread and I have spoken about it all in the first few pages. Go over them again

[Liam_Mangs]

Hi Guys,

Im currently in the process of buying a MY07 Lib 3.0R Spec. B 6 Spd Manual Wagon.
I've read countless arguments on here about how to improve the performance of these cars. I've done the research about Raptor headers, new exhaust system and Matt from KiDo tunes. Im pretty sure that these are the best ways to go to get the extra power and drivability (not to sure on the Raptor Air ram as I've heard they can be a waste of money).
I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with these? and what sort of power did you make with these done?
Any help would be great!
Probably the best person to answer me would be Matt!

Cheers!

Hi mate, if you read anything on this thread, your questions would have all been answered. That was the whole purpose of this thread and I have spoken about it all in the first few pages. Go over them again

Sorry!
Ill have to have a closer look over them.
Cheers!

[Liam_Mangs]

Thanks Swipez!

I went through all of the posts and to be honest it got pretty confusing in the middle and rather heated.
I get that some people are calling bullshit on all the Supercharged figures with a flex fuel tune but that doesn't bother me because i can't have that sort of a mod on my car as Im still on P's for another year and my access to E85 is practically Nil.
I've also read that it has a lot to do with the actual engine and how healthy it is which can be a very technical thing to evaluate apart from checking the obvious things such as oil and coolant usage and how the previous owner has treated the car.
I'm 90% sure the way for me to go is to bang on raptor headers and exhaust and get a KiDo tune on 98 to gain more power and torque with improved drivability all-round.
If anyone else has any suggestions I'm happy to listen. But as I said before no force induction recommendations please and thank you!