New & Abnormal Engine Whine

Posts specific to the 3.0 litre NA H6 engine

New & Abnormal Engine Whine

Postby Milhouse » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:39 pm

Hi all.

First time poster, looked through all the threads in this board containing similar issues many times and could not find a definitive answer as to what a noise like this could be.

I bought a 2005 Liberty 3.0R-B about a month ago with roughly 151,000km on it and a somewhat unknown service history for the past 30,000 or so km. Everything checked out alright when I and some others had a look at it other than it needing a service. It made no noises and was virtually silent when idling - coming from a loud Skyline, I actually couldn't tell if the car was on or not. It was like this on the test drive, the long drive home and then for a couple of weeks after.

In the past couple of weeks, however, there's been a constant whining noise that's slowly built up to be louder and louder, and is quite audible from inside the cabin, even just idling in neutral. Depressing the clutch makes no difference, and the noise increases in volume and pitch with RPM which makes me think it's something driven by the belt and not anything in the gearbox, etc. It seems to be more noticeable on cold mornings, however that could just be because it's idling higher when it's cold and is thus louder. It is present from the very start and does not go away even after a good half hour of driving. Turning the steering wheel on the spot generally makes it shift in pitch, though it doesn't seem to get louder and the noise is certainly present when the wheels aren't being turned. The steering seems to be occasionally stiff/numb at low speeds. It has that sort of supercharger whine while driving that others have likened it to, however it's very loud and getting to the point where something just seems wrong, especially since the noise wasn't there when I bought it. I know the timing chain is known for naturally making a slight whine, however again it was practically silent just a few weeks ago.

It seems to be coming from somewhere around the power steering pump, which, in my limited mechanical knowledge, seems likely to be the culprit. The power steering fluid as I just checked it seems to be slightly above the cold max (it's been a very cold day and it has not been driven in 7 hours), though it is parked on a slight inward lean so it's probably fine. It's definitely not low. I've done the whole screwdriver test to listen for where it was loudest, and the power steering pump and the hose connected to it seemed to be where a majority of the noise came from (the alternator also made a lesser, slightly different whining noise). There's a bit of fluid under the power steering pump by the looks of it (as seen in the photo) though I cannot be certain where it's come from.

I've already been to a mechanic specialising in Subarus and specifically asked about the whining noise, which they listened to with a stethoscope and put it down to a belt tension adjuster, noting that the power steering pump was also making a very slight, barely noticeable noise. The belt tensioner was replaced by them, and I also had a minor service carried out to replace the engine oil, some filters and stuff like that. The whining noise is the same now as it was before I visited the mechanics. In the report I got back, they said the power steering pump was starting to leak, though it was nothing to be concerned about and did not require any attention any time soon. I'll be heading to another mechanic some time this week when I have time to get a second opinion, thought I'd see if anyone with experience here had any ideas though.

TL;DR
- No whining noise when I bought car
- 2 weeks later, whining noise relative to RPM
- Happens at idle, does not really worsen with turned wheels, does not go away when warm
- *Seems* to be coming from power steering pump area
- Power steering fluid level seems fine
- Subaru mechanic mentioned slight pump leak, though nothing to worry about
- Very loud, worried

Wet patch possibly under pump:
Image

Whine from engine bay (pretty loud video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsmkAYi-WAY

Whine from interior (a lot quieter so turn your speakers up):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoYfnvLmkAs

My main concern is that the noise has suddenly appeared and gotten much worse.
Any thoughts?
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Re: New & Abnormal Engine Whine

Postby BillyCorgi » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:06 pm

From the video in the engine bay the sound appears loudest from the Power Steering Pump?
Maybe your pump is on the way out.
Look at this post regarding PS Pump noises.
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=29900

Also look here (from FSM)
http://i.imgur.com/RotRcAy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Py9VaMK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zmxXMx7.jpg
Get your Short Shift Adaptor viewtopic.php?f=68&t=30525
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Re: New & Abnormal Engine Whine

Postby Curley5959 » Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:16 pm

Mine has a similar whine under load (maybe not as loud). Have you had a flush recently? It's also possible there is air in the system. Look at replacing the O-Ring on the top of the Power Steering pump. A $4 part from your local Subaru and a 5-10min job. Might be worth trying that before replacing the pump.

After replacing the O-Ring and fluid in mine, and giving it some time to work the air out of the system, it has quietened down, although still makes a whine when revving. I just tell myself its my Supercharger.. Its easier that way :lol:
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Re: New & Abnormal Engine Whine

Postby Milhouse » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:19 pm

Managed to take it to another mechanic and they confirmed that the noise is coming from the PS pump. He also replaced the O-ring and it makes zero difference to the noise level.

I've been quoted ~$1200-$1300 (assuming no labour) for a new pump by the second mechanic, and around $1500 (labour inclusive) by the Subaru mechanic.
I've also been told I could get mine rebuilt for $375 (from memory) labour inclusive at the Subaru mechanic. I asked the second mechanic about a rebuild and he seems to think it's generally not worth the hassle considering it may just end up like this again in a year anyway.

Any opinions on replace vs rebuild? I don't have the money for a new replacement pump but a rebuild I could do.
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Re: New & Abnormal Engine Whine

Postby SpeedFreak » Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:24 pm

Not an opinion, but might be worth reading through this thread: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=30211
There are some parts and prices listed in there as well.

Im sure there are numerous other threads in this sub forum as well if you have a bit of a search.

Haven't had to replace the pump on my car yet, but if it comes to it, it seems like it might be worth giving it a shot myself.
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Re: New & Abnormal Engine Whine

Postby BillyCorgi » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:28 pm

If you are considering replacing the PS Pump be aware that there are different pumps for different models.
Here is a snapshot from the FSM showing some of the different swept volumes for the different PS Pumps.
The 3.0R engine has a bigger fluid delivery.

2004 Factory Service Manual
http://i.imgur.com/powwjxu.jpg

2009Factory Service Manual
http://i.imgur.com/jCi0tac.jpg
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Re: New & Abnormal Engine Whine

Postby Milhouse » Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:20 pm

Thanks for the replies guys.

If and when I do replace/rebuild the pump it'll be done by a mechanic as I have bugger all knowledge when it comes to these sorts of things and I can't afford to mess anything up on my daily.

Mostly seeking advice on whether or not a rebuild is a reasonable measure to take to fix the issue and if choosing the cheaper option between replacing and rebuilding will cost me substantially more in the long run.
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Re: New & Abnormal Engine Whine

Postby Daytona » Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:19 am

I can't comment much on the rebuild option is I didn't go down that road.
I ended up replacing the pump myself and am very happy with the results.

If you do decide to change your mind about doing it yourself, It's not too hard to do, but having a bit of mechanical knowledge will help. If you've never worked on the car before, I probably would recommend going to a mechanic though.

Getting the pump out is probably the hardest bit as it's mounted in a bracket which bolts onto the block. Some of those bolts are a little hard to get to as the intake manifold gets in the way. Two pairs of hands is also helpful with some bits! I flushed the old power steering fluid out at the same time by the way, and I did that by manually rotating the pump when the drive belt was off.
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Re: New & Abnormal Engine Whine

Postby west_minist » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:04 am

How much fluid is in the tank?

Did you change all fluids when you get her?
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Re: New & Abnormal Engine Whine

Postby Milhouse » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:25 am

Yeah it seems a bit fiddly Daytona! Last car I touched was my R32 which was a lot simpler to just look at and know what to do with it. The other thing deterring me from replacing the pump with a new one is the cost. I can find some overseas for something like AUD$700, but I'm not too sure how warranties and shipping would work since a lot of them don't seem to ship to Australia. Anything local I've been quoted $1000+ for the pump alone. Didn't budget the cost of a new pump in when I was buying the car unfortunately!

West Minist, the power steering fluid seems pretty good - it's up to the cold max when cold and hot max when hot. I'm not sure how old the fluids are, other than the engine oil which was replaced recently as it needed doing. The Subaru mechanic checked out everything else and he seemed to think it was fine - I asked at the time if I needed to change any fluids within the next 6 months before I got another service (a major one this time) and he said everything would be fine until then.
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Re: New & Abnormal Engine Whine

Postby west_minist » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:29 am

When you turn the steering the whine slightly change?
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Re: New & Abnormal Engine Whine

Postby Milhouse » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:42 am

Majority of the time it goes slightly down in pitch when you turn it on the spot, and back up in pitch when you return it to centre. It doesn't really get any louder though. Other times it doesn't change the sound at all. I've noticed a couple of times in the past couple of days it's made a bit of a chirp noise when I reach full lock when turning but I guess that's just me pushing it too hard.
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Re: New & Abnormal Engine Whine

Postby BillyCorgi » Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:36 pm

Power Steering Pump rebuild kit here
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SUBARU-LIBER ... 2a46932ff7

(Sorry, I am highly skilled at things mechanical, so I would be tackiling a rebuild myself. However, this does not suit everyone? Cheers!)
Get your Short Shift Adaptor viewtopic.php?f=68&t=30525
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Re: New & Abnormal Engine Whine

Postby Milhouse » Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:51 pm

Thanks Billy.

West Minist - I've just had a look and noticed that my fluid is pretty damn high after driving it for about half an hour and leaving it off for an hour. The car is on a slight lean in the gutter but surely this is just too much.
Note that it may have been filled up by the second mechanic I took it to recently - it was making the noise before I saw him too.

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Re: New & Abnormal Engine Whine

Postby Daytona » Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:28 am

Ummm, yeah. That might be a bit overfilled :-)
Regardless of the lean of the vehicle, the level of the fluid doesn't seem to be that much on an angle (looks kinda levelish). Even if the car was totally level, I don't think the fluid level would even drop to hot max.

You could always park the car closer into the gutter to offset the lean though.

I would probably use a turkey baster thing and get some of that fluid out. I'm not 100% on the side effects of over filling PS fluid. The fluid does heat up though with driving, hence the cold/hot levels. Of all the stuff I've done on my car, power steering would have been the most pain in the ass to work on (for a first timer).
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