H6 3.0 - dull performance?

[notmyrealname]

I'm currently looking for a pre FL Gen 4 3.0 and have test driven an 05 3.0R and an 06 3.0R-B - both auto - though only in 60km/h areas.

I haven't driven the 3.0 before and so I was expecting a lot more excitement from the 3.0 engine but it just doesn't feel very spirited. I tried mashing the pedal while cruising at 50, waiting about 3 seconds for the box to kick down a few gears and then the acceleration just didn't push me into my seat as I would have thought. I also tried a fast take off from stand still but it still feels rather boring. I was a passenger in an old Holden Clubsport 185i many years ago, and the acceleration from that is what I was expecting to feel in the 3.0 Liberty.

Do I need to keep the revs up to get some decent excitement? Is it highway cruising and overtaking where these engines do best? I'm honestly thinking I'll just get a post FL 2.5 to save on fuel and rego.

I know this all rather subjective, but any real world experience from other 3.0 owners would be appreciated.

[HardwareBoB]

I can't speak specifically about the 3L engines, but I can tell you a simple tune with no other mods will liven up these (and the transmission) no end, and give you better fuel economy if you don't mash the pedal all the time. I would not get a 2.5 NA if you can get a 3L, you would regret it.

[Brunsy3.0]

I got H6 mt though never been in an auto so cant judge directly on the autobox but the H6 is a nice engine. After a tune you def feel the difference as stated. The TCU can be tuned to a point so take that into consideration. I love this car is a good bit of fun when it needs to be but smooth and reliable the rest of the time . hope you find what your looking for

[666]

These engines are not known for low down torque and they need to have about 3500rpm on them before they start to sing. They are great cruising engines and at higher speeds they really feel at home. Having not driven the auto (I have a manual) I can only assume that they need to have even more rpm's up and the right gear to get them moving.
A tune helps alot, probably the best bang for buck for this engine followed by other mods e.g. exhaust etc although these do not offer as much gains as the tune for the money.
A manual is the way to go if you do decide to get a H6.

Rob.

[alexeiwoody]

I got H6 mt though never been in an auto so cant judge directly on the autobox but the H6 is a nice engine. After a tune you def feel the difference as stated. The TCU can be tuned to a point so take that into consideration. I love this car is a good bit of fun when it needs to be but smooth and reliable the rest of the time . hope you find what your looking for

Auto TCUs are not tuned by anyone. Even kido tuning who claims to have all tcus mapped out etc etc won't bother tuning a TCU for a stock car.

As hardware bob said the transmission will liven up with a proper ECU tune, but it is in no way due to tuning of TCUs. The gearbox just likes a smoother engine tune. Even then if you want the best performance you'll need to put it into gear yourself.

Comparing your experience as a passenger and as a driver doesn't work. My car scares the shite out of me when driven by my tuner or engine builder (me as a passenger). When I'm behind the wheel it's a more controlled feeling, even getting pushed into the seat won't impress you as much.

[notmyrealname]

Thanks everyone.

Unfortunately I'm limited to the auto as my wife does not have a manual licence. I manually shift my current auto 2.5 wagon a lot, just to overcome the crappy auto shifting and it sounds like I'd be doing the same with the 3.0 auto.

Considering all the above, I'll be test driving the next 3.0 on the highway and decide then if I like it. And I'll have to do some more reading on how to do the ECU tuning, maybe trying it on my 2.5 first.

Now I just have to find a decent 3.0 in Brisbane. I can't believe how much people are asking for crappy Liberty's in Brisbane right now.

[lonewolf]

yeah they dont really have a push you in the back feel, thats just the lack of a torque spike, smooth and high revving though

[Shiv]

My rating of the H6 auto is that its not as fast as the numbers suggest. Its not as effortless as you would like from a bigger capacity motor.

Having said that, a tune will unlock great drive-ability and enhance the driving experience. Furthermore, the engine does have character (not sure if you care or not) and when mated to a nice exhaust, it sounds great.

If the budget permits, definitely consider a GT with the turbo. Maybe that'll give the performance edge you desire.

[KiDo_Tuning]

I got H6 mt though never been in an auto so cant judge directly on the autobox but the H6 is a nice engine. After a tune you def feel the difference as stated. The TCU can be tuned to a point so take that into consideration. I love this car is a good bit of fun when it needs to be but smooth and reliable the rest of the time . hope you find what your looking for

Auto TCUs are not tuned by anyone. Even kido tuning who claims to have all tcus mapped out etc etc won't bother tuning a TCU for a stock car.

As hardware bob said the transmission will liven up with a proper ECU tune, but it is in no way due to tuning of TCUs. The gearbox just likes a smoother engine tune. Even then if you want the best performance you'll need to put it into gear yourself.

Comparing your experience as a passenger and as a driver doesn't work. My car scares the shite out of me when driven by my tuner or engine builder (me as a passenger). When I'm behind the wheel it's a more controlled feeling, even getting pushed into the seat won't impress you as much.

Please dont tell me what I am or am not doing. Your wrong like usual.
Tuned a TCU only for a car I dont tune purely to lift the rev limit to 7200rpm before it changes as the engine has big cams in an MY10 2.5. Its running Cobb plus Tactrix... TCU tuned via Tactrix
I tune the TCU computer in the early 04 to 05 cars purely as they drive better with even with the 06 TCU program loaded. Last 12 months has seen me tuning the actual TCU so it improves gearshifts on even a stock car.

[notmyrealname]

My rating of the H6 auto is that its not as fast as the numbers suggest. Its not as effortless as you would like from a bigger capacity motor.

Having said that, a tune will unlock great drive-ability and enhance the driving experience. Furthermore, the engine does have character (not sure if you care or not) and when mated to a nice exhaust, it sounds great.

If the budget permits, definitely consider a GT with the turbo. Maybe that'll give the performance edge you desire.

Even my stock 2.5 has character. In cooler weather under acceleration I can just hear a soft boxer burble and it feels moderately torquey. The GT's aren't really my thing, and I think gaining small performance improvements by tuning a 3.0 (or 2.5) would give me more satisfaction and a better connection to the car.

[KiDo_Tuning]

Plenty of 3L H6's in Brisbane that might be willing to take you for a spin

[alexeiwoody]

I got H6 mt though never been in an auto so cant judge directly on the autobox but the H6 is a nice engine. After a tune you def feel the difference as stated. The TCU can be tuned to a point so take that into consideration. I love this car is a good bit of fun when it needs to be but smooth and reliable the rest of the time . hope you find what your looking for

Auto TCUs are not tuned by anyone. Even kido tuning who claims to have all tcus mapped out etc etc won't bother tuning a TCU for a stock car.

As hardware bob said the transmission will liven up with a proper ECU tune, but it is in no way due to tuning of TCUs. The gearbox just likes a smoother engine tune. Even then if you want the best performance you'll need to put it into gear yourself.

Comparing your experience as a passenger and as a driver doesn't work. My car scares the shite out of me when driven by my tuner or engine builder (me as a passenger). When I'm behind the wheel it's a more controlled feeling, even getting pushed into the seat won't impress you as much.

Please dont tell me what I am or am not doing. Your wrong like usual.
Tuned a TCU only for a car I dont tune purely to lift the rev limit to 7200rpm before it changes as the engine has big cams in an MY10 2.5. Its running Cobb plus Tactrix... TCU tuned via Tactrix
I tune the TCU computer in the early 04 to 05 cars purely as they drive better with even with the 06 TCU program loaded. Last 12 months has seen me tuning the actual TCU so it improves gearshifts on even a stock car.

That sounds really great. When can we see some evidence of this TCU tuning?

Is this like the time you claimed DBW increases line pressure in the 5eat and it turned out it didn't?

Ps. for someone who claims to have two university degrees - it's "you're" not your. Every time, dude!

[KiDo_Tuning]

Is this like you were wrong again? Must be why I see MY DBW being used in other tuners work... like a value of 343 in the top right colum of the S# map(quite a unique value) Odd that it was my trademark being defaced to change the value up from 303. Atleast it made it easy to improve upon

DBW RT does increase line pressure. Ever wonder why a stock MY09+ LGT has a value of up to 390 yet the engine tune is capped at 350 in a per gear limiter table? Ever tested just raising the final column on a H6 auto to increase line pressure?

On my phone since you would know I am away tuning... phone keyboard is lame as it learns from all language used as common words from texts including grammar and spelling mistakes.

[alexeiwoody]

Is this like you were wrong again? Must be why I see MY DBW being used in other tuners work... like a value of 343 in the top right colum of the S# map(quite a unique value) Odd that it was my trademark being defaced to change the value up from 303. Atleast it made it easy to improve upon

DBW RT does increase line pressure. Ever wonder why a stock MY09+ LGT has a value of up to 390 yet the engine tune is capped at 350 in a per gear limiter table? Ever tested just raising the final column on a H6 auto to increase line pressure?

On my phone since you would know I am away tuning... phone keyboard is lame as it learns from all language used as common words from texts including grammar and spelling mistakes.

DBW does not increase line pressure. Increasing line pressure through the valve body increases line pressure. Perhaps even the TCU tuning can do it? I don't know, as I've never seen proof of the latter. Neither has anyone I know on this forum.

There's something wrong with your understanding of how DBW works on our cars. Either that or it's your marketing strategy.

Serious tuners are not stealing your DBW maps. Some tuners just can't be bothered changing the DBW maps when your customers with a failed tune bring it in for a retune. I've seen it time and time again - your old customer will bring the car in and the tuner will take a look at the DBW and say "looks fine, I'm going to leave it and spend time working on things that matter more". Next minute, you're claiming MSR is using your DBW maps.

1. It's nearly a stock subaru DBW map. It's not different enough or amazing to call your own creation. Congratulations, you've figured out Subaru maps work better than the tbSti DBW maps.
2. MSR or Cihan the two tuners I've visited, could write a good DBW map off the top of their head. You claim they need to steal your stockish table with a few values changed.
3. If some etuners are using your maps - it's because you've hyped them up so much, and noone bothered to test the claims. Instead they think they're stealing gold.
4. I personally don't particularly like your DBW maps (or rather the miniscule changes you make to the stock table). Your logic of giving the clutches time to grip might sound nice, but just makes the car slightly less responsive in my experience.
5. Perhaps you should be asking why so many of your customers are going to other tuners. Might have something to do with spending too much time keyboard battling on forums instead of doing what they paid you to do.

If you want to say I'm wrong about something, perhaps start a thread and point out exactly what you're referring to? Being human, I expect to be wrong some of the time. However from memory 90% of the time it's me pointing out your BS.

[Brunsy3.0]

Well this is turning very unconstructive