3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Posts specific to the 3.0 litre NA H6 engine

Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby BillyCorgi » Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:41 am

Michael and I will be there at 7:00am on Tuesday 15th.
Michael will bring the 2.5i
I will bring the 3.0R-B
Usual place.
Cheers!
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby Ric B » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:30 pm

Hi Matt,

Is this just an upgrade or will I need a new tune to run full flex?

Currently I have been running anything from about 40% 98RON to all E85.

Cheers


Ric

KiDo_Tuning wrote:UPDATE

Every H6 ECU for the 03 to MY09 Liberty and even the Legacy now has full Flex Fuel
I also have Flex Fuel for some of the 3.6L H6 motors as well now(Tribeca/Outback/Liberty/Legacy)
Obviously already have Flex Fuel on the majority of 2.5L Gen4s/WRX/ForesterXT/STi
For those who are not on the Facebook page, there has also been another development... One of the Liberty Gen4 GT EJ20's is undergoing Flex Fuel development

Also, contrary to one workshop who said there must be a string of blown motors failing from this flex fuel tune... there is NONE(unless we count Scyance/Brenton and the bad fuel pump install etc)

Kesh wrote:On my second tank, do any of the auto guys feel as though launching with half throttle or less then flooring it is faster?

According to torque and my blutooth adapter, I'm still getting 6 seconds to 100.

Or am I expecting too much? :p


Should be faster now ;)
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby KiDo_Tuning » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:10 pm

Full new tune :) Free upgrade for existing customers :)

Ric B wrote:Hi Matt,

Is this just an upgrade or will I need a new tune to run full flex?

Currently I have been running anything from about 40% 98RON to all E85.

Cheers


Ric

KiDo_Tuning wrote:UPDATE

Every H6 ECU for the 03 to MY09 Liberty and even the Legacy now has full Flex Fuel
I also have Flex Fuel for some of the 3.6L H6 motors as well now(Tribeca/Outback/Liberty/Legacy)
Obviously already have Flex Fuel on the majority of 2.5L Gen4s/WRX/ForesterXT/STi
For those who are not on the Facebook page, there has also been another development... One of the Liberty Gen4 GT EJ20's is undergoing Flex Fuel development

Also, contrary to one workshop who said there must be a string of blown motors failing from this flex fuel tune... there is NONE(unless we count Scyance/Brenton and the bad fuel pump install etc)

Kesh wrote:On my second tank, do any of the auto guys feel as though launching with half throttle or less then flooring it is faster?

According to torque and my blutooth adapter, I'm still getting 6 seconds to 100.

Or am I expecting too much? :p


Should be faster now ;)
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby Ric B » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:03 am

Will have book the flex tune next time you are out West!

United have a monopoly on E85 here and sometimes the 98RON is cheaper that the E85.
During the colder months I have been putting in about 25% 98RON to make cold starts easier. I have done about 25,000km's so far on the E85 Tune... All Good!
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby kiahatsiu » Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:15 am

I imagine it would require the installation of a flex fuel sensor too, and wiring that to the ECU.
Kinda flush. Fitment is something. ADM as F*ck.
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby KiDo_Tuning » Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:55 am

kiahatsiu wrote:I imagine it would require the installation of a flex fuel sensor too, and wiring that to the ECU.


Nope, no sensor needed. Over 300 cars out there with full flex fuel without sensors. Virtual Flex Fuel Sensing :)

Around 100 H6's, around 150 turbo cars, 10 or so Subaru XV's/MY11+ Impreza NA, 30 or so BRZ/86 and 20 or so NA Liberty/Forester 2.5i
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby BillyCorgi » Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:23 am

This is a post from http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f13/ ... tem-28729/
Subject; Virtual Flex Fuel Sensing.

What we need is an engine that can run on any mixture of ethanol and gasoline (or just straight gasoline). That is where the Chevrolet Impala Flex Fuel system comes into the game. In the past, GM had some small trucks and SUVs that could operate on different mixtures of ethanol-based fuels. These vehicles used a fuel sensor in the fuel line that signalled the computer how much ethanol was present in the fuel; the computer would add or subtract the amount of additional fuel required. Now, the Impala flex fuel system can perform this analysis without using any additional sensors.

GM has developed a Virtual Flex Fuel Sensor (V-FFS) software program that calculates the ethanol content in the fuel, instead of using a sensor to measure it. When the fuel level in the tank increases as the vehicle is refueled, the computer recalculates the percentage of ethanol in the fuel and automatically changes the air/fuel ratio. To do this, the computer temporarily stops the operation of other emission systems and monitors the oxygen sensors to determine ethanol content. The test is done several times until calculations remain stable. This can take several minutes when the engine is idling, but much less time at higher fuel flow rates.

There are no visible indications on the Impala that it is flex fuel-capable and there is no extra equipment. If your Impala has the 3.5-litre V6 engine and the eighth digit of the serial number is a "K", then it is ready for E85. It even drives the same. When operating on E85, it does use a little more fuel, but green house gases are reduced dramatically. There is a slightly sweet smell to the exhaust and you have the satisfaction of knowing you are running on a renewable fuel resource.

Most of the Impalas sold in the United States will be flex fuel compatible. In Canada, about half of the vehicles will have this capability. GM is offering them at no additional cost compared to traditional gasoline-powered vehicles. They can be operated on gasoline now, but will be ready for E85 when it becomes available, as it surely will in the future. I don't know if the Impala will be the chicken or the egg, but it does come before the fuel and it is ready for the future.


Also, here is a PowerPoint presentation that covers Inference Strategy or Virtual Flex Fuel Sensing strategies.
The paper suggests that the Inference Flex Fuel strategies will displace the Flex Fuel Sensor.
http://www.siucautomotive.com/presentat ... exfuel.pdf

So, the research suggests that both Ford and General Motors have their own tried and tested VFFS systems.

I have one of Matt's Flex Fuel Tunes (in H6), and so does No.2 Son (in NA 2.5i), and they are working a treat.
Plus the many, many American cars running a version of the VFFS technology.
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby 3rspecb » Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:33 am

Nice find and interesting read. Can't comment on the ford VFFS system but the GM VFFS system didn't work that well so they didn't introduce it accross their model range and stuck with the flex fuel sensor. When i was at GMH HQ, the GM VFFS system was trialed on the commodore with poor results so went with the continental flex fuel sensor.
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby KiDo_Tuning » Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:59 pm

3rspecb wrote:Nice find and interesting read. Can't comment on the ford VFFS system but the GM VFFS system didn't work that well so they didn't introduce it accross their model range and stuck with the flex fuel sensor. When i was at GMH HQ, the GM VFFS system was trialed on the commodore with poor results so went with the continental flex fuel sensor.


Issue with GM's implementation was actually the poor factory tune in the VE's that we all know about. Too much timing and fuel maps all over the place.
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby nixwrx » Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:27 pm

Matt - Just triple-checking something here...

Once the new fuel pump goes in, is there any need for a further re-tune? Remembering that I already have the flex tune loaded...

Cheers!

P.S. When do you reckon you'll be back in Perth?
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby JTR » Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:30 pm

Can a 2012, 2.5L Outback tuned on P95 run E10? I'm assuming been only 10% ethanol you don't need to change pump or get flex tune? And also with the flex tune on a H6 can you run E10/P95? or only P98/E85, out of curiosity.
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby McDoof » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:06 am

JTR wrote:Can a 2012, 2.5L Outback tuned on P95 run E10? I'm assuming been only 10% ethanol you don't need to change pump or get flex tune? And also with the flex tune on a H6 can you run E10/P95? or only P98/E85, out of curiosity.

Yes, you can. No issues with E10 and the stock hardware
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby KiDo_Tuning » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:52 pm

JTR wrote:Can a 2012, 2.5L Outback tuned on P95 run E10? I'm assuming been only 10% ethanol you don't need to change pump or get flex tune? And also with the flex tune on a H6 can you run E10/P95? or only P98/E85, out of curiosity.


P10 is fine in that Outback

E10 is OK, 95 is borderline but fine for commuting if your not expecting to rev over 4000rpm

nixwrx wrote:Matt - Just triple-checking something here...

Once the new fuel pump goes in, is there any need for a further re-tune? Remembering that I already have the flex tune loaded...

Cheers!

P.S. When do you reckon you'll be back in Perth?


Back again hopefully in December for my cousins birthday(if she ever decides to come home from her 6 week planned but now 6 month long European holiday)

Flex tune is fine for the fuel pump, I can get more from it once tuned for E85 though
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby McDoof » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:34 am

I see Deatschwerks do 2 variants of the DW300 for Subaru. One is the DW300 and the other DW300c (compact)
My question is, does the DW300 just drop in like the DW300c? Or does this have to be set up another way?
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby alexeiwoody » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:01 am

McDoof wrote:I see Deatschwerks do 2 variants of the DW300 for Subaru. One is the DW300 and the other DW300c (compact)
My question is, does the DW300 just drop in like the DW300c? Or does this have to be set up another way?


That is a weird question, but in short the DW300 is not the Dw300c. The dw300c is made for your car, the dw300 is not. Yes you can make it fit, but you will need to grind away at your fuel filter, among other things or relocate the fuel filter to the engine bay etc etc.

Just over a year ago the dw300c wasn't available and if you maxxed out your dw65 (even though there are only about 6-7 libs to do that here), you were out of options for "drop in" pumps. People don't realize how lucky they are DW managed to shrink down the pump to fit. So buy the correct part and don't waste your time and money.
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