3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Posts specific to the 3.0 litre NA H6 engine

Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby BillyCorgi » Mon May 25, 2015 11:35 am

You have an H6 Outback.
We assume an Auto?
What are your consumption figures presently?
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby KiDo_Tuning » Mon May 25, 2015 11:40 am

Keep in mind this is for NA setups only. Boost just wont work due to the EGT's generated on these sensors. Working on a patch though :)
D2WD603H - 03/04 Manual - Flex in testing but using keys to simulate flex for now
D2WD610H - 05 H6 Manual - Full Flex Fuel
D0XJ001M - 06 H6 Manual - Full Flex Fuel
D2UH001M - 07/08/09 H6 Manual - Full Flex Fuel

D2ZY101H - 03/04 H6 Auto - Full Flex Fuel
D2ZY110H - 05 H6 Auto - Flex in final testing
D0XJ001T - 06 H6 Auto - Full Flex Fuel
D2UH001T - 07 H6 Auto - Upgrades to D2UJ001T
D2UJ001T - 08/09 H6 Auto - Full Flex Fuel

Have also done flex fuel on a few 2.5i Liberty as well and they perform outstandingly!

Fuel economy varies, some report 600kms to a tank around town, others struggle to get 200km on highway(yet AFRs are spot on)
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby McDoof » Mon May 25, 2015 12:02 pm

Matt, with the Flex tune, does that mean it will run any variation of Ethanol blend? So fir instance if it was running E50 one day and then topped up to E85? I am on the D2WD603H ECU.
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby KiDo_Tuning » Mon May 25, 2015 12:11 pm

McDoof wrote:Matt, with the Flex tune, does that mean it will run any variation of Ethanol blend? So fir instance if it was running E50 one day and then topped up to E85? I am on the D2WD603H ECU.


Correct :)

I should have full flex soonish. BillyCorgi is running E85/98 in his :) He can tell you how much better it is haha!
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby illuzn » Mon May 25, 2015 12:20 pm

Fuel Consumption

I was getting 11.6 L/100km previously... now getting around 13.6 L/100km.

If you cruise around all day between 60-80km/hr then your fuel consumption numbers won't change at all.

E85 uses more fuel to get up to 60 km/hr and to drive at 80-110km/hr.

In my case, bumper to bumper traffic on the way to work kills fuel consumption.

Fuel Mix/ E50

Yes, its flex fuel so you do not need to drain your tank when changing fuel blend. The recommended procedure is to drive it like a girl though for the first bit while the car re-learns the fuel trim.

Particularly when going from 98RON to E85 - My understanding is that E85 uses a ratio of 8:1 compared to petrols 12:1 so E85 will run super lean. In fact, it is not recommended to fill an empty tank completely up with E85 from 98RON for this reason. I think the rule is to double your current capacity, drive it around the block like a girl, rinse and repeat.

Finally, you do notice the difference in power from 98RON to E85, I can say this from a "double blind" perspective... partner filled the car up with 98RON without me knowing it and the drive just felt "wrong". The difference in power is definitely noticeable on the butt dyno.
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby McDoof » Mon May 25, 2015 1:13 pm

Correct :)

I should have full flex soonish. BillyCorgi is running E85/98 in his :) He can tell you how much better it is haha!

Should be interesting because, while I can't get a reliable source of E85 I can get 20l containers of ethanol just up the road from me, which would result in varying mixes depending on what is in the tank at the time. Plus coming into winter I think E85 would mean cold starts would be frustrating.
I like where this is heading.
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby BillyCorgi » Mon May 25, 2015 1:46 pm

KiDo_Tuning wrote:
McDoof wrote:Matt, with the Flex tune, does that mean it will run any variation of Ethanol blend? So fir instance if it was running E50 one day and then topped up to E85? I am on the D2WD603H ECU.


Correct :)

I should have full flex soonish. BillyCorgi is running E85/98 in his :) He can tell you how much better it is haha!


Once you go to Ethanol you will not go back.
Unless, of course you are driving into a region that just does not have it and you are forced to switch back to 98 momentarilly.
I am presently fuelling with E-Flex from Caltex at Moorebank.

My question to Matt would be if you are soon to go to full flex I am guessing the fuel trims would be widened?
If so, what dangers might be created for not throwing up a CEL warning for a mixture out of range? Cheers!

BTW, with all those numbers up above, which one have I got?
D2WD603H - 03/04 Manual - Flex in testing but using keys to simulate flex for now
D2WD610H - 05 H6 Manual - Full Flex Fuel
D0XJ001M - 06 H6 Manual - Full Flex Fuel
Get your Short Shift Adaptor viewtopic.php?f=68&t=30525
Get your Gear Shift Rejuvenation Kit viewtopic.php?f=68&t=31240
Get your Centre Differential Rebuild viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31089
Want a custom built Brake Cylinder Stopper? viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31321
Need to hire a Guard Rolling Machine? viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31899
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby KiDo_Tuning » Mon May 25, 2015 7:17 pm

BillyCorgi wrote:
Once you go to Ethanol you will not go back.
Unless, of course you are driving into a region that just does not have it and you are forced to switch back to 98 momentarilly.
I am presently fuelling with E-Flex from Caltex at Moorebank.

My question to Matt would be if you are soon to go to full flex I am guessing the fuel trims would be widened?
If so, what dangers might be created for not throwing up a CEL warning for a mixture out of range? Cheers!

BTW, with all those numbers up above, which one have I got?
D2WD603H - 03/04 Manual - Flex in testing but using keys to simulate flex for now
D2WD610H - 05 H6 Manual - Full Flex Fuel
D0XJ001M - 06 H6 Manual - Full Flex Fuel


It is a pulsewidth muliplier table using a secondary fuel map to increase pulsewidth. So say in closed loop I set it at say 1.270 to add 27% more fuel and then in open loop with same a 98 target of 12.98 then I want to get to 0.5 AFR leaner, then I target say 1.200
Since my 'D' ranges are 'locked' this means final open loop AFR is what ever I set it to be with no fuel trim learning making it run leaner etc

Yes, I have seen maybe 3 or 4 cars who have had a CEL for mixture out of range on flex fuel or been capped on the AF#1/2 limits but it only affected idle or off idle, was mainly an issue with setting the right throttle tip in values.

McDoof is on D2WD603H which should be finalised by NZ trip :)
BilliCorgi is on the same ECU from memory.
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby Swan_Liberty » Mon May 25, 2015 9:21 pm

Would there be issues running only 98 for extended periods of time? Just say I was going on an 8 hour road trip and would like the increased fuel economy and cant get ethanol for a few weeks and over 1000k's driving would I expect there to be any issues? ( I am presuming no but thought I would ask Just in case I end up doing this mod)
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby BillyCorgi » Mon May 25, 2015 9:47 pm

Matt has left me with two keys. (actually, I now have three keys)

One key is for a 98 tune.
The other is for the E85 tune.
The third is the spare (will run what ever tune the last key ran) This is for Mrs Wife.
There is a process to wean the car from one fuel over to the other and then switch keys.
The process is simple however relies upon some care.

When running the 98 tune, there is no issue for how long the car operates on it. It is just the 98 tune.
Realistically, when you are in an area with E85 or EFLEX readily available you would not bother with 98.
Idling with E85 is like 98 with the engine switched off. It is just so smooth.
Acceleration is crisper and sharper with E85.
It just smells like a brewery when starting and cold and running open loop.
Get your Short Shift Adaptor viewtopic.php?f=68&t=30525
Get your Gear Shift Rejuvenation Kit viewtopic.php?f=68&t=31240
Get your Centre Differential Rebuild viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31089
Want a custom built Brake Cylinder Stopper? viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31321
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby KiDo_Tuning » Mon May 25, 2015 9:56 pm

Swan_Liberty wrote:Would there be issues running only 98 for extended periods of time? Just say I was going on an 8 hour road trip and would like the increased fuel economy and cant get ethanol for a few weeks and over 1000k's driving would I expect there to be any issues? ( I am presuming no but thought I would ask Just in case I end up doing this mod)


Yours is DOXJ001M
It is the most stable flex fuel ECU to date. 1Mb without the complexity of SI Drive
KiDo Racing Tunes Info: HERE

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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby McDoof » Tue May 26, 2015 6:32 am

Matt has left me with two keys. (actually, I now have three keys)

Can you elaborate on this? As is Ignition keys?
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby BillyCorgi » Tue May 26, 2015 8:00 am

The ECU recognises which key is which by the code number of the immobiliser transponder chip.
One key is for a 98 Tune, the other key is for an Ethanol tune.
The ECU then biases (my words) the program for that particular fuel.

PLUS the spare for Mrs Wife(That way, she does not have to think which key to use)
Last edited by BillyCorgi on Tue May 26, 2015 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Get your Short Shift Adaptor viewtopic.php?f=68&t=30525
Get your Gear Shift Rejuvenation Kit viewtopic.php?f=68&t=31240
Get your Centre Differential Rebuild viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31089
Want a custom built Brake Cylinder Stopper? viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31321
Need to hire a Guard Rolling Machine? viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31899
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby McDoof » Tue May 26, 2015 8:12 am

BillyCorgi wrote:The ECU recognises which key is which by the code number of the immobiliser transponder chip.
One key is for a 98 Tune, the other key is for an Ethanol tune.
The ECU then biases (my words) the program for that particular fuel.

Interesting. I best find my spare key then. It's somewhere.....
I have a 3 year old so that could mean in the bin. But it is somewhere.
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Re: 3.0L H6 on E85 = WINNING

Postby Swan_Liberty » Tue May 26, 2015 1:22 pm

KiDo_Tuning wrote:
Swan_Liberty wrote:Would there be issues running only 98 for extended periods of time? Just say I was going on an 8 hour road trip and would like the increased fuel economy and cant get ethanol for a few weeks and over 1000k's driving would I expect there to be any issues? ( I am presuming no but thought I would ask Just in case I end up doing this mod)


Yours is DOXJ001M
It is the most stable flex fuel ECU to date. 1Mb without the complexity of SI Drive


Looks like I am getting a new fuel pump next service then :)
When are you next in Melbourne?
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