Turbo a 3L

[DWDN]

I watched this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY47S8jhOZ0 and it got me thinking, you know, I should really turbo a 3L for the hell of it cos they sound great and seem to make exceptional power.


So I was wondering where do I get such an engine for my Subaru and how much kw can be made with the stock NA internals before you need to forge the engine? Do they come up for sale here often? I see there are EG33's and EZ30's??

[smythie]

hehe, paging jzk25! jzk25 to the thread please.

There has been some heated debate recently in this section regarding what is and what is not possible on stock internals. No one has done enough km's or been game enough to turn their engine into a proper time bomb to prove or disprove either point of view.

[DeMobBoss]

No one has done enough km's or been game enough to turn their engine into a proper time bomb to prove or disprove either point of view.

Ahemmm! Well so far have done approaching 32,000kms on two low pressure turbos (X2 TD04s at max 10psi) with completely stock internals. Not oil burning, no big end noises absolutely no hint of any failing reliability. But yes I'm not game to turn my engine into a time bomb much like the next man so dunno what sort of max the stock internals can handle but we did it to say it could be done and got 290Kw (+/- a % depending on which expert you talk to on this forum ) at all fours and it is considered a 'safe' tune and if the afore mentioned utterly reliable Kms since then aren't testimony to that then I don't really know what is...
Check out my youtube channel listed below.
PM me if you wanna know more.

[kiks]

An unopened ej25 na with gen 2 dohc heads will put down about 170kw atw. The ez30 has thinner width big end rod bearings and higher compression and a shit stock fuel system but a lot better heads. I'd expect 250kw atw with a gt35 would be good on the stock internals with plenty o boost at 3000rpm. On e85 it'd be a lot safer bet though. Remember an ej257 with sti rods and hyperaids slugs is only good for about 210kw atw. Before bang, anything else is a happy dyno or a grenade. The ez30r internals are a long long long way from being any good from the factory. The bore thickness is less than a 2.5l and they're fully open deck. One guy in aus has semi closed decked one.

[DWDN]

No one has done enough km's or been game enough to turn their engine into a proper time bomb to prove or disprove either point of view.

Ahemmm! Well so far have done approaching 32,000kms on two low pressure turbos (X2 TD04s at max 10psi) with completely stock internals. Not oil burning, no big end noises absolutely no hint of any failing reliability. But yes I'm not game to turn my engine into a time bomb much like the next man so dunno what sort of max the stock internals can handle but we did it to say it could be done and got 290Kw (+/- a % depending on which expert you talk to on this forum ) at all fours and it is considered a 'safe' tune and if the afore mentioned utterly reliable Kms since then aren't testimony to that then I don't really know what is...
Check out my youtube channel listed below.
PM me if you wanna know more.

So it's your ride, nice work. I gather it's an EZ30R but what ecu?

[DWDN]

An unopened ej25 na with gen 2 dohc heads will put down about 170kw atw. The ez30 has thinner width big end rod bearings and higher compression and a shit stock fuel system but a lot better heads. I'd expect 250kw atw with a gt35 would be good on the stock internals with plenty o boost at 3000rpm. On e85 it'd be a lot safer bet though. Remember an ej257 with sti rods and hyperaids slugs is only good for about 210kw atw. Before bang, anything else is a happy dyno or a grenade. The ez30r internals are a long long long way from being any good from the factory. The bore thickness is less than a 2.5l and they're fully open deck. One guy in aus has semi closed decked one.

Do you know much about the EG33?

[I Wish]

What sparkplugs are you using?

[smythie]

No one has done enough km's or been game enough to turn their engine into a proper time bomb to prove or disprove either point of view.

Ahemmm! Well so far have done approaching 32,000kms on two low pressure turbos (X2 TD04s at max 10psi) with completely stock internals. Not oil burning, no big end noises absolutely no hint of any failing reliability. But yes I'm not game to turn my engine into a time bomb much like the next man so dunno what sort of max the stock internals can handle but we did it to say it could be done and got 290Kw (+/- a % depending on which expert you talk to on this forum ) at all fours and it is considered a 'safe' tune and if the afore mentioned utterly reliable Kms since then aren't testimony to that then I don't really know what is...
Check out my youtube channel listed below.
PM me if you wanna know more.

With all due respect, 32,000km's is pretty short in terms of long term reliability. I could rack that up in a year. To prove a build as effectively safe for the long term you'd have to do at least 100,000km in varying conditions without failures that might be associated with the turbo build and then pull the engine down to inspect for any increased internal wear/fatigue stress/creep of components/damage.

[DWDN]

No one has done enough km's or been game enough to turn their engine into a proper time bomb to prove or disprove either point of view.

Ahemmm! Well so far have done approaching 32,000kms on two low pressure turbos (X2 TD04s at max 10psi) with completely stock internals. Not oil burning, no big end noises absolutely no hint of any failing reliability. But yes I'm not game to turn my engine into a time bomb much like the next man so dunno what sort of max the stock internals can handle but we did it to say it could be done and got 290Kw (+/- a % depending on which expert you talk to on this forum ) at all fours and it is considered a 'safe' tune and if the afore mentioned utterly reliable Kms since then aren't testimony to that then I don't really know what is...
Check out my youtube channel listed below.
PM me if you wanna know more.

With all due respect, 32,000km's is pretty short in terms of long term reliability. I could rack that up in a year. To prove a build as effectively safe for the long term you'd have to do at least 100,000km in varying conditions without failures that might be associated with the turbo build and then pull the engine down to inspect for any increased internal wear/fatigue stress/creep of components/damage.

Wow, hater!! Say you have a big built motor with forged materials and double the stock clearances etc - well even they are not designed to go 100,000 kms and many don't get anywhere near that. So saying a stock internal motor needs to go that far to prove it's reliable is a bit far fetched. I think 32,000 kms is enough to say it can be done without dramas and that's all I'm interested in. Although if you actually really want to prove an engine properly, stick it on a race track for an hour. Weaknesses in the tune and engine tend to fair poorly under those extreme conditions.

Anyway back on topic, seems the EG33 shares the same rod part numbers with the 2L WRX including some STI's and later model GDB WRX's. It also shares the same bore and stroke as the 2.2L (and stoke is the same for the 2.0L / 2.2L / turbo 2.5L which means after market rods / bearings are easy). Also someone was able to run 10 psi through a stock one no issues (I'm only looking at 5-7 psi), all good to know. It also has the oil cooler connections in the same place (you just need to bolt that stuff on) and uses a multitooth 12 tooth crank wheel with a 1 tooth cam wheel for sync every 720 degrees. And I think you can use the cheap and common 380cc injectors and run the turbo water pump with the oil cooler water cooler outlets but still confirming that.

[smythie]

Wow, hater!! Say you have a big built motor with forged materials and double the stock clearances etc - well even they are not designed to go 100,000 kms and many don't get anywhere near that. So saying a stock internal motor needs to go that far to prove it's reliable is a bit far fetched. I think 32,000 kms is enough to say it can be done without dramas and that's all I'm interested in. Although if you actually really want to prove an engine properly, stick it on a race track for an hour. Weaknesses in the tune and engine tend to fair poorly under those extreme conditions.

Hater nothing. As I said, I could easily rack up 32,000km's in little time. If I was going to force feed mine, I'd want it to last a LOT more than 1 to 1.5 years worth of driving. So, no 100,000km is not far fetched.

Your expectations obviously vary and it sounds like your concerns about the stock internals are put to bed to your satisfaction.

[RAN94A]

Although if you actually really want to prove an engine properly, stick it on a race track for an hour. Weaknesses in the tune and engine tend to fair poorly under those extreme conditions.

I remember reading somewhere on here that it went to a track day...... and subsequently caught fire..?

[DWDN]

Hater nothing. As I said, I could easily rack up 32,000km's in little time. If I was going to force feed mine, I'd want it to last a LOT more than 1 to 1.5 years worth of driving. So, no 100,000km is not far fetched.

For a daily driven car like the sound of yours, you'd be mad to spend much coin on it, would be a almost a waste. You'd be more inclined to do it to a weekend car or a track car where you could actually can enjoy it to it's potential plus then you wouldn't have the worry of some numbut in a car park wrecking a door or the increased risk of another numbnut writing you off. That would suck!

Your expectations obviously vary and it sounds like your concerns about the stock internals are put to bed to your satisfaction.

Hopefully, it's all good and well for me to check and cross reference everthing to determine what is actually going on inside but reality will be something else and there are few who've actually done it to find stuff off. I only do 2000 kms tops per year so if it lasts 32,000 kms I'm laughin.

Although if you actually really want to prove an engine properly, stick it on a race track for an hour. Weaknesses in the tune and engine tend to fair poorly under those extreme conditions.

I remember reading somewhere on here that it went to a track day...... and subsequently caught fire..?

hahaha, see what I mean, the track shows all weaknesses. Good on the owner having a crack though and seems the important bit (engine) must have faired okay?

[kiks]

EG33 is an EJ22 with another pair of cyls. It shares all EJ22 gear essentially. Doesnt hold a pinch of billygoat shit compared to an EZ30R. They are an entire generation of engine apart. One was designed pretty much in 1980 and has just had bandaid solutions applied until 2011 (or extra cyls in this case). The other is a group up redesign for subaru using some german 'flat 6' cough... head and valvetrain design, far more compact.

As for a built engine? why do the tolerances need to be to big? Decent modern forgies run quite low tolerances, lower than many stock cars. It's only for the most thrashed of thrashed track only engines and pure drag engines do you make them loose and thirsty. Many engines come out of the factory so far out of spec anyway you could cock a build up and be no worse.

Fact still remains, without semi or fully close decking the 30r, it's hardly a willing participant for big power. Small bores, tiniest rods ever seen on a subaru, 11.7:1 compression as measured during one being built in QLD. If you wanted to make a straight out drag engine an EG33 is a better thing. But so is a small block chev, and cheaper. But sleeve and semi CD an ez30, with some chunky rods, pistons, and proper valve springs and theres no reason it cant flow 600hp with factory reliability. The factory heads and cams definitely allow it.

As for ECU. I believe damobmoss uses the stock canbus facelifted ecu with a haltech interceptor?? Not ideal but it retains factory SI drive etc and the factory computer is not a bad thing if you want to remain using an AFM and little injectors. A vipec V88 will run an ez30r out of the box on MAP. Win.

[DWDN]

As for a built engine? why do the tolerances need to be to big? Decent modern forgies run quite low tolerances, lower than many stock cars. It's only for the most thrashed of thrashed track only engines and pure drag engines do you make them loose and thirsty. Many engines come out of the factory so far out of spec anyway you could cock a build up and be no worse.

Tolerances need to be big in piston to bore clearance to allow the 2216 alloy to expand as found in a proper forged piston. "Factory" forgies run piece of piss weak shit 4032 pistons which is alloy full of silicon and shatter with detonation. Great for tight clearances and low oil consumption and a fair bit of power but useless for big power or at least big power with shitty street fuel. Not sure why people go bigger with bearing clearances - maybe increased heat or something also?!?!

Although I agree - poeple get carried away with clearancing this and forging that lol.

As for ECU. I believe damobmoss uses the stock canbus facelifted ecu with a haltech interceptor?? Not ideal but it retains factory SI drive etc and the factory computer is not a bad thing if you want to remain using an AFM and little injectors. A vipec V88 will run an ez30r out of the box on MAP. Win.

ECU and turbo all sorted and tune modified to suit new engine (ie triggers etc) - just need to acquire new engine

[DeMobBoss]

No Halltech no more. factory ECU cracked and heavily revamped even to accommodate high cap injectors.
Yes we did track it on a 40 degree day on the fab Oran park when it existed - it showed lack of heat shielding of turbo up pipes and down pipes and stagnant air flow at the back of the engine bay needed to be addressed, one damaged or should I say BBQed wiring loom later it's all good and simply one to mark down for the R&D process. But, the engine remained flawless and performed very well on the day setting a track record among the libs that were there and gave a Holden HDT a bloody good run for it's money proving the robustness of the tune.

32,000kms Not good enough for you Smythie? - Somehow I could've guessed you'd say that... 100,000 kms simply won't happen but maybe 50,000 before I swap the EZ36 in with semi closed deck and forged internals. Will let you know what we find when we finally take the EZ30R apart after it's been extracted...

If you looking for second hand engines there is a mob in Japan that sell second hand motors thru eBay from Subaru test vehicles. And with the AUD strength now it's pretty good value for money the engines come with some cool features like electronic oil level sensors.