H6 3.0 - dull performance?

[KiDo_Tuning]

DBW does not increase line pressure. Increasing line pressure through the valve body increases line pressure. Perhaps even the TCU tuning can do it? I don't know, as I've never seen proof of the latter. Neither has anyone I know on this forum.

Isn't that precisely what this thread on the US forums tells people to do to increase line pressure? http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/tune-5eat-line-pressure-149282.html

That chap does sell modified valve bodies I guess but it is an independent person saying exactly the same thing.

As one of the guys who has recently had a TCU software update to handle the E85 torque output, how is the gearbox shifting compared to before? Considering there was no changes to the DBW maps, I would say significantly better.

[dr20t]

Climber D's posts are anecdotal at best (and potentially related to higher boost and or actual engine torque due to more throttle plate movement for given load and engine speed) and placebo at worst

Not saying something else Matt does isnt working to improve shifts but im highly sceptical its RT changes. I personally witnessed the difference in shift behavior from when Matt loaded his tune onto my car after a very reputable tuner had tuned my car.

I do distinctly remember something though - before getting my formal dyno tune done at JEM, Matt sent me some dbw and RT tables to use on my existing tune. I remember loading them being super excited. Reality is it made bugger all difference to shift behavior, but the car did feel twitcher.

It was only after my e85 tune on JEM dyno that I felt the difference. Shift was definitely sharper and faster. It may have been because of the higher actual torque the engine was producing on e85 that allowed shifts to improve with actual torque sensed by the tcu/ ecu increasing shift crispness.

Mick

[alexeiwoody]

DBW does not increase line pressure. Increasing line pressure through the valve body increases line pressure. Perhaps even the TCU tuning can do it? I don't know, as I've never seen proof of the latter. Neither has anyone I know on this forum.

Isn't that precisely what this thread on the US forums tells people to do to increase line pressure? http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/tune-5eat-line-pressure-149282.html

That chap does sell modified valve bodies I guess but it is an independent person saying exactly the same thing.

If you read the research Climber D did into the DBW and RT the verdict is that it makes very little difference if any. Hence why Climber D started Hex valve body mods.

It wasn't some marketing gimmick to make money, it's an enthusiast trying to deal with his 5eat slipping at high power/torque. He kept searching for something that will make a real difference and found it in the valve body (as the nissan 5eat guys were already enjoying the benefits of shift kits).

Many people here have tried the DBW/RT approach and it's really not what will help your shifts once you start really making torque.

Anyone who wants to see my car shift better than it ever has, is welcome to do so. A proper valve body mod (hydraulic pressure increase, not a resistor implant) > better than any kido tune I've ever had. And I've had a lot.

Matt, where are these tcu tuned cars? You've claimed many things on these forums...

No real tuner, with access to a dyno buys this BS. It is so simple to check/change in the tune - it's just stupid for Matt to think noone has tried it.

Hey dr0t, how's your tcu tune going?

[dr20t]

Alexei - haven't had my tcu tuned as yet - waiting on Matt to confirm he can do this for me as he has done for a few people already. Looking forward to it though should be great.

Matt - seeing as my car makes what i assume is the most power of the auto's your tuning, why haven't you mentioned this to me previously, dude?

Anyway - just had a look at a few of my tunes

Insight tune for 98 fuel shows target throttle plate tables pretty much same as stock with minor variances. RT tables tweaked slightly from stock (this tune was slipping at WOT in 3rd gear above 5500rpm on only 196awkw)

Matt's tune on e85 some time later - same engine and box setup as above - made 254awkw and no slip at all. RT and Throttle tables look different and have a different graph (im respecting Matt's I.P here and not disclosing too much about them other than they were different to the above insight tune)

My latest tune (also by Matt) on my built 5eat and making more power, now has the exact same Throttle plate tables as the above insight one (similar to stock including the shape) although RT values have been tweaked slightly)

I can tell you for certain - not anecdotally - that my most recent setup shifts better than any other 5eat you will see - full stop. This is with "stock-ish" throttle tables. Keep in mind this is a fully built 5eat with valve body and clutch packs etc.

I am actually thinking of playing with the shape here and seeing what it does for shifting. Just to put my curiosity to rest.

But cant wait to see what Matt can come up with for TCU tuning cos that would be extremely helpful

Mick

[KiDo_Tuning]

Matt - seeing as my car makes what i assume is the most power of the auto's your tuning, why haven't you mentioned this to me previously, dude?

I have. Just no point tuning the box further until we know where the power band is. You have the 2006 TBSTi TCU program on board so far which is obviously better than a 2004 based TCU on what was a relatively new engine and gearbox combination. Even Subaru learnt a thing or 2 in their time playing with the cars

Anyway - just had a look at a few of my tunes

Insight tune for 98 fuel shows target throttle plate tables pretty much same as stock with minor variances. RT tables tweaked slightly from stock (this tune was slipping at WOT in 3rd gear above 5500rpm on only 196awkw)

Matt's tune on e85 some time later - same engine and box setup as above - made 254awkw and no slip at all. RT and Throttle tables look different and have a different graph (im respecting Matt's I.P here and not disclosing too much about them other than they were different to the above insight tune)

My latest tune (also by Matt) on my built 5eat and making more power, now has the exact same Throttle plate tables as the above insight one (similar to stock including the shape) although RT values have been tweaked slightly)

I can tell you for certain - not anecdotally - that my most recent setup shifts better than any other 5eat you will see - full stop. This is with "stock-ish" throttle tables. Keep in mind this is a fully built 5eat with valve body and clutch packs etc.

I am actually thinking of playing with the shape here and seeing what it does for shifting. Just to put my curiosity to rest.

But cant wait to see what Matt can come up with for TCU tuning cos that would be extremely helpful

Mick

Throttle table was reverted back to a closer to stock to get a feel for the gearbox and new engine plus linearity for SD tuning.

[dr20t]

Wasnt aware of that - where would I be able to see this?

In terms of throttle tables will have a look and see

Mick

[nerdyfred07]

Hey, some of you guys with a tuned h6 say you get around the same as a 2.5i /11L/100km . what sort of driving is that? As I've got a 2004 h6 AT and I get 11.6L with very limited driving. <3k rpm with probably 3 bursts to 6k rpm.

How much can a tune help with this?

I've also noticed power seems to kick in after 2.5k rpm maybe? I'll have to try again later tonight. cheers

[Robbks]

H6 6MT wagon
8L/100km, highway driving only, 110km/h, overtaking, 500km round trip, >1/4 tank left
11L/100km, 100% city driving, lots of gear changes and me being an impatient driver, getting up it frequently.
10L/100km, towing ~700kg camper trailer up the coast roads, hills, windy, still pulling 100km/h everywhere possible, overtaking, 530km trip, fuel light comes on.

Before tune,
was always back at least 1 gear when towing or punting around town, Car was useless under 2500rpm
After tune,
drive round at 1300-2500rpm when empty with no hassles, will still maintain speed, uphill in 6th gear when towing, unless quite steep, then I only need to be over 2500rpm and it'll just pull and accelerate uphill in 5th easily

[nerdyfred07]

Thanks rob, certainly gives me good insight into the increase in power however yours is a manual, is there much difference in gain between auto and manual? And are manuals more efficient?

Where are you based and what tune/ who tuned your car?

[Robbks]

much of a muchness I believe in regards to auto/ manual economy.
I live in hobart, sh!t for econo,y as it's mostly 60-70 around the outer of the city, so you've always accelerating, and it's hilly everywhere.

Tuned by Matt/ kido/ throttlehappy
noone else in the county knows H6's aswell as him

[SegR]

Tuned 05 H6 5EAT. I get about the same economy as Rob. Can crack about 6.6L/100km instantaneous on highway at 110km/h but around 8 average and not that low if only doing 100.

[nerdyfred07]

Cool thanks. I check my instantaneous and get 9.5-10.6L when doing 90-110 which is really atrocious since 6 cylinder cars are meant to be more efficient on highway driving. At least that's what I've been told and understand.

I've also just got the car full serviced. Transmission, brake, diff, engine and all filters. Running on 95.

[HardwareBoB]

Cool thanks. I check my instantaneous and get 9.5-10.6L when doing 90-110 which is really atrocious since 6 cylinder cars are meant to be more efficient on highway driving. At least that's what I've been told and understand.

I've also just got the car full serviced. Transmission, brake, diff, engine and all filters. Running on 95.

You should be running on 98, and even then the stock tune pings like crazy - start running 98 and you should see it improve, get a tune and it'll be better again.

[Robbks]

the car pulls out 2/3 of it's available ignition timing (power/ economy) with a stock tune, running on 98,
you'd be even further down.

get it tuned, and run 98.

they do still rev reasonably high at 100km/h, so a larger engine will simply consume more fuel at the same speed.
while you don;t need to work the engine as hard to do it, it still has to ingest that air, and add fuel to it

[nerdyfred07]

OK sweet, thanks Rob, Bob. Can't wait to try it. Now I just got to find a way to burn 3/4 of my current 95 tank quickly !