Turbo a 3L

Posts specific to the 3.0 litre NA H6 engine

Re: Turbo a 3L

Postby Subie Boy » Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:38 pm

Being an ex-Liberty owner who went through this path as well (turbo-ed my 2.0R, please check earlier posts), I think if you want to do this, just go for it. I support DeMobbBoss that it will be a fun exercise and if done professionally and no cutting corners - you will have awesome fun and a nice reliable car.

Smythie, if the bloke wants to do it then let him do it - 32,000kms or 320,000kms it doesn't matter and if it is done properly then I am sure it will last just like any other car. Go easy, grumpy smythie hahaha!

Don't worry, Smythie and I have had our run-ins and he certainly does like to put his 5 cents comment in everything that is not up to his standard!

p.s. it's probably good to have a second car as well as this could take some time (getting the work done) as my car was at Pulse Racing for about 6-7 weeks for a complete end to end work. The result was fantastic!!! But I am lucky to have 3 cars at home for myself hahaha :D
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Re: Turbo a 3L

Postby DWDN » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:32 pm

Subie Boy wrote:Being an ex-Liberty owner who went through this path as well (turbo-ed my 2.0R, please check earlier posts), I think if you want to do this, just go for it. I support DeMobbBoss that it will be a fun exercise and if done professionally and no cutting corners - you will have awesome fun and a nice reliable car.

Smythie, if the bloke wants to do it then let him do it - 32,000kms or 320,000kms it doesn't matter and if it is done properly then I am sure it will last just like any other car. Go easy, grumpy smythie hahaha!

Don't worry, Smythie and I have had our run-ins and he certainly does like to put his 5 cents comment in everything that is not up to his standard!

p.s. it's probably good to have a second car as well as this could take some time (getting the work done) as my car was at Pulse Racing for about 6-7 weeks for a complete end to end work. The result was fantastic!!! But I am lucky to have 3 cars at home for myself hahaha :D


That's good to hear about your 2R turbo converison. Do you have a link to your thread so I can have a read - I'd be interested to know how the tune went with the high compression and the turbo.

To be honest I don't think you understand exactly what I've got in mind with this. It's very much a project to see what happens and I don't see why it should cost more than $1500 including the engine and new 5 psi wastegate spring. I'll be doing all the fabrication / tuning / labour so shouldn't be to hard - I think the hardest part will be engineering the bonnet latch to ensure it still works once I've moved the radiator and intercooler 3kms further forward to deal with the increased engine size. Stage two will be expensive if I get that far - forgies, cams and bearings, but we'll see how we go hey. Stock might be plenty strong enough for what I've got planned.

DeMobBoss, out of interest why are you going down the "bent" rod EZ36? Surely a sleeved version of your engine with bigger pistons / custom rods would be a better way to get 3.6L or is that what you've got planned?
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Re: Turbo a 3L

Postby DeMobBoss » Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:34 am

The EZ36 has several features that the Ez30 does not that lend itself to further tunability like avls and avcs on intake and exhaust valve gearing. The 'bent rods' are really no big obstacle. They are actually pork chop rods. But, that's all I'm saying on this thread I have typed about this elsewhere on this forum also, ad nauseam.
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Re: Turbo a 3L

Postby kiks » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:29 am

There is no better tunability, Unless you're going to be making a custom exhaust cam to make it come on boost a little earlier (impossible with your turbo setup, this would be for a low mount single only).

As for the pork chop rods. Theyre called asymetrical rods, popular on massively stroked 1970's design diesel blocks in america like the new ford whateveritisFtruck. They are your single greatest hindrance. Do you understand rod:stroke ratios at all? Ask paul to explain to you why the ez36 is the worst possible engine you could hope to turbocharge for decent power whilst retaining 3.6L. Sleeve it, destroke it to 2.8 to fix the massive flaw they have so it revs, make the heads work at 9000 rpm using a new custom cam. But not only the rod:stroke ratio being ridiculous, the fact that the piston skirts are a huge compromise on the 36, the rod big end and crank rotation is cause for some serious thoughts about the strength of the whole operation during the compression stroke top and ignition stroke bottom, the dwell times are nuts. Why subject an already stressed engine to such silly G forces. Those asymetrical rods suit a 4000rpm capped 8L diesel well. Not an 8000rpm turbo 3.6L petrol engine. Unless you've discovered unobtanium thats strong enough?

If you want to spend bucklet loads of cash on doing it wrong, at least consider the right way and take some guidance from it. It pains me to know someone in the world actually things the ez36 is in any way shape or form an upgrade. For a big single turbo, thats very very close to the heads on a serious thick manifold then AVCS exhaust is a small gain in spool time, (at a loss of torque off boost, the reason you use a h6 in the first place)

So right now you have thinner bores, an even worse rod to stroke ratio, a certainly unknown crank, a 3.6L displacement you are going to lose 600cc of to make it strong enough to bother turboing properly (you could of started with an ez30r for the same result). Or 800cc of if you want to make it rev properly. And you lose probably the greatest thing in the EZ30r which is the intake AVLS which is arguably the greatest tuning tool in the whole engine. You suddenly have the ability to dynamically (well...high or low) control air intake speed based on RPM which is amazing, probably the reason they dont have TGV's and funky weird shit going on for low rpm and idle emissions and are a near silent engine (fuel atomisation is so good, plus mechanical losses through full stroke valve lift is avoided) . The single best heads subaru have ever made those ez30r heads. I dare say the exhaust AVCS was as much for emissions control as it was any sort of power benefit on a NA engine (near none) considering the big exhaust retard. Oh I didnt mention, now your oil pump flows less on the 36r than the 30r model. They are not interchangeable.

Either way the thread is about turboing a 3L. Do it, thoroughly awesome engine with every possible feature for a turbo car you want and none of the drawbacks, with huge potential.
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Re: Turbo a 3L

Postby DeMobBoss » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:34 am

Well this sounds all too familiar, thank you for all the information but I think you're quite clearly missing the point. Most of it has been mentioned in the past on this forum and on a few discussions elsewhere with the usual suspects in tow :roll: :lol: . But, a few things are news to me or at least things I hadn't considered before. Admittedly on paper the EZ30 is a damn good engine and is the obvious choice, so don't worry we won't be throwing it away - thankfully forged internals for the EZ30 are now 'off the shelf' so it'll def' be a plan B and a very good one at that. But we are still determined to see what can be done with the EZ36... Leave your pessimism behind and watch this space (but not this thread) :)

Now lets get back to the topic at hand Turboing a 3L
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Re: Turbo a 3L

Postby kiks » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:52 am

Thank god theyre off the shelf, its not like you cant just email CP with dimensions and have some made, oh wait...you can.

08+ EJ heads have exhaust AVCS. It's been proven plenty to be stuff all difference except with seriously big turbos versus intake avcs only (which is actually quite handy dandy and not used to even 1/10th of its potential anywhere in the world (surely it can be used for resonance harmonic tuning with the right cam grind). Shit I dont think anyone on the planet cares enough to bother with
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Re: Turbo a 3L

Postby DWDN » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:28 am

DeMobBoss wrote:Now lets get back to the topic at hand Turboing a 3L


I should rename it "turboing a 3.3L", hopefully should have a one in the next week or two. Then the fun begins.

Out of interest, has anyone flow tested the EZ30D and EZ30R heads? I found some EG33 results and they're about the same as stock 06 STI heads which is not to bad considering their age.
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Re: Turbo a 3L

Postby kiks » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:05 pm

Stock 06 sti heads are fairly shocking. 2.5L SOHC EJ25 heads are better....
The best are the D25 casting from an 06-07 wrx (non sti) due to the combustion chamber shape. For some reason (emissions actually) STI have a hard corner in the head between valve surfaces, yet have an excellent stock piston crown. Defeats the purpose. D25 small port single hall effect AVCS heads with some of TK's work are where its at.

I doubt anyone would need to flow test EZ30r heads.Theyre physically larger than the full works and jerks TK spec 340cfm EJ heads I had, and have a much longer turn in intakes, with a better bowl on the exhausts and still the silly dogleg.
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Re: Turbo a 3L

Postby DWDN » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:49 pm

kiks wrote:Stock 06 sti heads are fairly shocking. 2.5L SOHC EJ25 heads are better....
The best are the D25 casting from an 06-07 wrx (non sti) due to the combustion chamber shape. For some reason (emissions actually) STI have a hard corner in the head between valve surfaces, yet have an excellent stock piston crown. Defeats the purpose. D25 small port single hall effect AVCS heads with some of TK's work are where its at.

I doubt anyone would need to flow test EZ30r heads.Theyre physically larger than the full works and jerks TK spec 340cfm EJ heads I had, and have a much longer turn in intakes, with a better bowl on the exhausts and still the silly dogleg.


Well that depends, early EJ turbo heads are absolutely shocking and 06 STI heads are a long way better than them. They might not be fantastic for massive power but 250-300 kw is not out of the question, especially with E85 to help, and 250+ kw is a shitload of power.

Anyway I'm interested to know if anyone has ever done a flow test on the EZ30D or EZ30R heads - will help put things into perspective.
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Re: Turbo a 3L

Postby Robbks » Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:24 pm

kiks wrote:I doubt anyone would need to flow test EZ30r heads.Theyre physically larger than the full works and jerks TK spec 340cfm EJ heads I had, and have a much longer turn in intakes, with a better bowl on the exhausts and still the silly dogleg.


are we talking flow per cylinder here...?
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Re: Turbo a 3L

Postby DWDN » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:28 pm

Robbks wrote:
kiks wrote:I doubt anyone would need to flow test EZ30r heads.Theyre physically larger than the full works and jerks TK spec 340cfm EJ heads I had, and have a much longer turn in intakes, with a better bowl on the exhausts and still the silly dogleg.


are we talking flow per cylinder here...?


Ian, can you answer that?
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Re: Turbo a 3L

Postby DeMobBoss » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:37 pm

Surely you mean "Kiks" don't you? :lol:
Cuz last I recal "Ian" was booted off for being way too unsociable and disrespectful :banned:
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Re: Turbo a 3L

Postby kiks » Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:22 pm

Not that I know of. Doubt there's worthwhile benefit except a quick deshroud of the valves. Noone is going to push the limits of them, and anyone contemplating a turbo ez30d doesnt have the money to bother or theyd buy an R.

Wish Ian could chime in here somewhere. He's probably over at rexnet being hella flush.

I say to the OP go for it.
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Re: Turbo a 3L

Postby Kekotic » Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:40 pm

Okay how are you associated with 'Ian' and why do you sound exactly the same way as he does :lol:
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Re: Turbo a 3L

Postby smythie » Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:05 pm

far from it, kiks has hardly insulted anyone personally in his time and has been happy to divulge some experience. Ian spent all his time personally insulting people.

Both are associated with AM Auto
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