Head gaskets

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Head gaskets

Postby SP007 » Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:30 am

Hi All,

I am new here - looking to buy a used Subie and wanted to get some opinions on the dreaded head gaskets issue.

The vehicle i am looking at is a 2002 Liberty RX (gen3 my03). Engine is EJ251, 2.5L with about 200,000km's on the clock.

The car has been well looked after and so far has not had its head gaskets replaced.

The dealer is telling me the HG's are a not an issue.

I wanted to know whether 1) the head gaskets are an issue for this particular model, and if so 2) how likely is it that with 200kkm's that it will come up as an issue, 3) are head gaskets usually covered under dealer warranty and 4) if anyone has had their head gasket replaced how much they paid for the job.

Cheers,
SP
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Re: Head gaskets

Postby BillyCorgi » Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:45 am

SP007 wrote:I wanted to know whether
1) the head gaskets are an issue for this particular model, and if so
Head Gaskets are an issue on the N/A EJ25 SOHC engines in all Gen3 and Gen4 vehicles. The coated single layer shim head gaskets are POS and will fail.
Head Gasket failure on the Gen3 EJ251 is by external oil leak at the lower rear of the LHS bank and at the lower front of the RHS bank.
We bought Junior No.1's MY02 Outback with 189,000 and did HG's at 230,000km

2) how likely is it that with 200kkm's that it will come up as an issue,
The head gaskets will come up as an issue. It is simply a matter of time.
3) are head gaskets usually covered under dealer warranty and
I did not think a warranty was offered on cars over 160,00km distance travelled?
4) if anyone has had their head gasket replaced how much they paid for the job.
I have done HG's on two of our family Subarus on each occasion for under $200 in parts
Dealers/repairers would be in excess of $1000 as the engine comes out to do the job.
Add ons would be other major service parts fitted at the same time, such as timing belts and tensioners, etc.

There are many post on the forum regarding HG's and what replacement parts to use.


Cheers,
SP
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Re: Head gaskets

Postby SP007 » Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:56 am

Thanks BC.

Now where is the best place in Sydney to get a head gasket repair job done?

I just got quoted $2,380+GST which sounds like a ridiculous amount (and does not include other maintenance).
The quote was $3,250+GST including doing the timing belt and water pump at the same time.
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Re: Head gaskets

Postby HardwareBoB » Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:36 pm

SP007 wrote:I just got quoted $2,380+GST which sounds like a ridiculous amount (and does not include other maintenance).
The quote was $3,250+GST including doing the timing belt and water pump at the same time.


Disconnect all ancilliaries. Undo gearbox. Undo engine mounts. Remove engine. Put engine on stand. Remove Intake manifold. Remove rocker covers (x2 sides). Remove cams (x2 sides). Remove head bolts (x2 sides). Machine heads (x2) replace Valve stem seals (x16), Replace head headsket, replace head bolts, reinstall cams, replace cam seals (x2 sides) , reinstall cams (x2 sides) , replace rocker cover gaskets (x2 sides), reinstall intake manifold, reinstall engine, re-attach all ancilliaries. Road test, and provide warranty of work.
Still think it's expensive?
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Re: Head gaskets

Postby Clearlight » Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:11 am

Unfortunately some folks don't appreciate the value of another mans labour these days …
If you take your car to dealer ( not my first choice ) or preferably an experienced and enthusiastic
specialist , you are getting the benefit of their considerable knowledge and probably the odd stuff up .
When I worked on exotic Italian cars years ago , we would have several cars a week visit us that had
been stuffed up by rookie spanner men or workshops unfamiliar with the machinery . Eg ; few people
can really tune and balance Weber carbs on a V 12 properly . Pay the money , then say thank you .
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Re: Head gaskets

Postby BillyCorgi » Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:56 am

Small thought.....
The SOHC EJ251 does not need the camshafts removed to R&R the heads.
Head bolts are not really a change out item on the SOHC engine (The FSM does not say they are to be replaced)
The EJ251 SOHC engine is not so sophisticated that it is outside the scope of a competent DIY activity.
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Re: Head gaskets

Postby SP007 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:03 pm

HardwareBoB wrote:
SP007 wrote:I just got quoted $2,380+GST which sounds like a ridiculous amount (and does not include other maintenance).
The quote was $3,250+GST including doing the timing belt and water pump at the same time.


Disconnect all ancilliaries. Undo gearbox. Undo engine mounts. Remove engine. Put engine on stand. Remove Intake manifold. Remove rocker covers (x2 sides). Remove cams (x2 sides). Remove head bolts (x2 sides). Machine heads (x2) replace Valve stem seals (x16), Replace head headsket, replace head bolts, reinstall cams, replace cam seals (x2 sides) , reinstall cams (x2 sides) , replace rocker cover gaskets (x2 sides), reinstall intake manifold, reinstall engine, re-attach all ancilliaries. Road test, and provide warranty of work.
Still think it's expensive?


Look at it like this... The $2,380 ex GST cost is probably $200 parts and $2,180 labour.
Assuming an hourly rate of $110/hr for the mechanics that is like charging for about 20 hours work.

So lets put it another way and ask how many hours should a head gasket job take?
If the answer is say 10 hours, then maybe 110*10+200 = $1,300+GST would be considered a fairer price?
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Re: Head gaskets

Postby HardwareBoB » Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:56 pm

$200 parts?

Full headgasket OEM kit is more like $4-500 from subaru aus, possibly more, plus you need the head machined at a machine shop, I just had mine done, cost me about $250.

Also need oil, filter, coolant replaced.
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Re: Head gaskets

Postby BillyCorgi » Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:17 pm

HardwareBoB wrote:$200 parts?


Matthew, You know I can buy parts cheap.
MLS Head Gaskets, Inlet Gaskets, Exhaust Flange Gaskets, Rocker Cover and Spark Plug Tube seals for about $200.
You are correct in that dealers and workshops will charge much, much more to the bill!
Get your Short Shift Adaptor viewtopic.php?f=68&t=30525
Get your Gear Shift Rejuvenation Kit viewtopic.php?f=68&t=31240
Get your Centre Differential Rebuild viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31089
Want a custom built Brake Cylinder Stopper? viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31321
Need to hire a Guard Rolling Machine? viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31899
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