Subaru Liberty 2.5 Engine news...

[AndyLiberty]

Hi All,

I am an owner of a 2007 Liberty 2.5i 5SPD. It's has 150,000 on the odometer and has been a very reliable car over the last 10+ years. It's a secondary, spare car for the family and is driven only less than 5000K's a year.

Believing that these cars are 'bulletproof', I had thought that it still had plenty of K's left on this engine.

However, I just got news from my mechanic that both the head gaskets are leaking oil (and more recently coolant). They suggested that the cyclinder heads requires reconditioning and engine resealed.

So, before any rash decisions I thought to do a bit of research, and seek wisdom and advice from this forum, before I decide what to do with the car.

To start with:

1). How dangerous is it to drive with an engine leaking engine and coolant (assuming I keep an eye on the oil and coolant levels and top it up, when required)?

2). How much would it typically cost to recondition the cylinder heads and reseal the engine typically? Are there any other potentially hidden costs in addition to reconditioning the heads and resealing engine? I am after an estimated "total" cost to fix this.

Cheers,
Andy

[AndyLiberty]

Nobody care to have a go at any of the queries?

[BillyCorgi]

Come on.....
It is an EJ25 N/A engine in a Gen4 Liberty.
ALL EJ25 N/A engines in this series will develop an external oil leak failue.
Did I say ALL (yes I did - ALL)

The single layer head gaskets need to be replaced with MLS (Multi-Layer-Shim) type head gaskets.
I would use (and I do use) the 11044AA642 MLS head gaskets from 2.5 litre turbo engines.
The heads do not require reconditioning, the head gaskets just need to be replaced.

I have replaced the head gaskets in three EJ25 N/A engines for under $250.00 each.
That is head gasket and rocker cover and manifold gaskets only. Other items performed at the same time are extra.

Try reading this post from another forum.
https://www.subaruforester.org/threads/ ... nd.130417/

[Stifull]

I to have an 07 GT liberty with the same engine and my GC8 WRX also has the same engine as does our sons 1999 Ver 6 Sti.. and although I am new to libertys I have had wrxs for over 15 years and we have 6 Subarus under the house atm and the head gasket issue with the 2.5s of this vintage all , sooner or later, have head gasket issues and that is very common issue in the WRX Clubs.. The ONLY one of ours not to have an issue with the 2.5 factory head gaskets is my GC8 wrx because it had a brand new block fitted with a new, better, different to normal factory head gaskets fitted with the original 2lt wrx heads when the engine was built. The original gaskets have a life expectancy of around 150,000klm max depending on maintenance and modifications and of course how they are driven. My Liberty had its rebuild at around 150,000klm. If the rest of the car is in good condition and you are planning on keeping it, get new head gaskets for it and it will last for many more years. My gc8 has all sorts of go fast goodies and it has been to Lakeside many time to play as well as the Willowbank drags (mid-high 13s but I am gentle with it) and it has plenty of life left in it. I dropped it off this afternoon to get Russel and the boys to do the timing belt, plugs, diff and transmission oil change. The rest I will do myself. My wife's Silver bugeye has original 2ltr engine and 335,000klm and still goes hard..

[AndyLiberty]

Thanks for your replies BillyCorgi and Stiful.

So it's a known frequent issue with the Gen4 EJ25's huh. IT does sound like I can replace the HG's and it could go for a lot longer, which is promising!

1. Stiful how much did you pay to replace your HG on the Liberty GT? Did you change anything else wgile you were at it?

2. BillyCorgi - you mentioned the heads didn't need machining, but curious why my mechanic and others may recommend to do it along with the HG replacement.

Not sure if it makes a difference but I had a look at the log book (yes my liberty has been regularly serviced) and it seems like the HG was observed to start leaking at around 110K Kms and now its 155K on the clock.

[BillyCorgi]

Thanks for your replies BillyCorgi and Stiful.

2. BillyCorgi - you mentioned the heads didn't need machining, but curious why my mechanic and others may recommend to do it along with the HG replacement. .

Sorry, this is incorrect You have misquoted me.

In you first post you said [quote] "the cyclinder heads requires reconditioning"
In my reply I sais [quote] "The heads do not require reconditioning,"

So, the cylinder head should not require to be torn down and the valves ground and the valve seats recut and the valves lapped, nor new valve guides; a job known as reconditioning.
The head surfaces do, however, require to be prepared for the replacement gaskets.
In the post link provided to the forester.org site the heads on my No.1 son's EJ251 NA engine were prepared by using a surface plate and 80grit wet&dry.
I have successfully done many NA heads in this fashion for simple weepy head gasket replacement

Please note the difference between the word "reconditioning" and the word "machining'.
Cheers!

So yes, I did prepare the surrface of the heads for the the new head gaskets.
So yes, others may do this by machining the minimum from the surface of the heads.
And NO, I did not have them recondiioned.

BTW, the EJ25 N/A heads I have prepared in this manner are still going strong with their MLS 11044AA642 head gaskets.

[Stifull]

The Liberty was done by the previous owner and he had all the receipts. It was around $3500 but it was done properly with new studs, etc. as well there was some work done on the heads. I was a bit concerned as to whether the workshop knew what they were doing because they were not Subaru specialists but they did do performance engines. I have had it for 3 years now and so far so good. It got a 50%+ increase in power last year and although same boost and same WKWTs as my rex it is still a heavy beast with an extra 350kg but a lot more fun never the less. I will never be as confident of it's strength as Subaru engines really should only ever be rebuilt by people who know them very well. For this reason it is only tuned to 16psi... I would be a lot more confident had it been done by the guys at Subievolution who are doing timing belt on my blue rex today... These are the parts for the VF52 upgrade and 2nd pic is finished upgrade.

[AndyLiberty]

I stand corrected. It was a mistake to think that saying reconditioning means the same as machining.

I did mean machining the heads though. Thanks for the sharing the part number of the HG that you used. This has been noted.

You mentioned that you have done many HG changes - in your experience what were other things that you had to change along with the HG?

Thanks for your replies BillyCorgi and Stiful.

2. BillyCorgi - you mentioned the heads didn't need machining, but curious why my mechanic and others may recommend to do it along with the HG replacement. .

Sorry, this is incorrect You have misquoted me.

In you first post you said

"the cyclinder heads requires reconditioning"
In my reply I sais

"The heads do not require reconditioning,"

So, the cylinder head should not require to be torn down and the valves ground and the valve seats recut and the valves lapped, nor new valve guides; a job known as reconditioning.
The head surfaces do, however, require to be prepared for the replacement gaskets.
In the post link provided to the forester.org site the heads on my No.1 son's EJ251 NA engine were prepared by using a surface plate and 80grit wet&dry.
I have successfully done many NA heads in this fashion for simple weepy head gasket replacement

Please note the difference between the word "reconditioning" and the word "machining'.
Cheers!

So yes, I did prepare the surrface of the heads for the the new head gaskets.
So yes, others may do this by machining the minimum from the surface of the heads.
And NO, I did not have them recondiioned.

BTW, the EJ25 N/A heads I have prepared in this manner are still going strong with their MLS 11044AA642 head gaskets.

[AndyLiberty]

Luck is on your side perhaps. Getting a 50% increase of power is not too shabby

For the $3500 if you wouldn't mind do you still have a record of what that includes? You mentioned replacing studs?

I am looking at gauging how much would be a reasonable fee for a HG replacement and what are other likely things I might need to change along with it.

My only concern is that the HG leaking oil was identified at 110K and my mechanics had mentioned just to leave it alone. I've driven it normally and serviced it regularly since thenn. It was just the latest service at 155K they mentioned that it was leaking oil and coolant now. So I'm not sure what that means and whether it's too late the change the HG now or not...

The Liberty was done by the previous owner and he had all the receipts. It was around $3500 but it was done properly with new studs, etc. as well there was some work done on the heads. I was a bit concerned as to whether the workshop knew what they were doing because they were not Subaru specialists but they did do performance engines. I have had it for 3 years now and so far so good. It got a 50%+ increase in power last year and although same boost and same WKWTs as my rex it is still a heavy beast with an extra 350kg but a lot more fun never the less. I will never be as confident of it's strength as Subaru engines really should only ever be rebuilt by people who know them very well. For this reason it is only tuned to 16psi... I would be a lot more confident had it been done by the guys at Subievolution who are doing timing belt on my blue rex today... These are the parts for the VF52 upgrade and 2nd pic is finished upgrade.

[BillyCorgi]

You mentioned that you have done many HG changes - in your experience what were other things that you had to change along with the HG?

What other things may also depend upon when other critical items were previously, recently servcied?

When the oil weepy head gaskets were done on No.2 Son's BP9 Liberty wagon we did the the timing belt and idler pulley change out and replaced the clutch.
We had earlier made a decision knowing that the standard head gaskets would require replacement.
That was, when the clutch required replacement we would do BOTH clutch and head gaskets while the engine was out; OR
when the head gaskets required change-out we would do BOTH the head gaskets and clutch while the engine was out; whichever occureed first.

[Stifull]

I will get the list of things they did and post it. I have grandkids staying at the moment so I am not getting much done..LOL.. So it may take a day or so..