"Project Locomotive," Suspension build log

[teK--]

Pics from Stage 1:

[teK--]

Update: Stage 2 is now partially complete (Bilsteins on backorder for another 3-4 weeks).

Workshop of choice is Pedders South Melbourne (Reade and Ben the crazy Kiwis).

These springs were supplied at a subsidised price as part of http://www.entra.com.au trial program (which has now closed); they have just started importing these springs from the USA. The full price is $550.00 per set, shipped.

The Swift springs have been fitted today and also the Whiteline rear camber adjustment bushes. Installation is about as straightforward as a set of springs could be, except there was an issue with the new rear springs in that when the strut was out of the car, the springs would not stay captive (they were not held tightly between the lower spring perch and the strut top).

There is not even a visible gap but fact is that you can turn the spring on the strut by hand using only a medium level of force. If the spring was either 2-3mm longer or the strut was 2-3mm shorter, then there would not be this problem. These are stock KYB struts (as per original post). This is technically not roadworthy however you would have to be inspecting the car pretty closely to pick this up.

Once the struts were bolted in, they seemed to stay captive due to the upwards pressure of the control arms against the strut.

The camber bushes went in without a hitch but they are a bitch to adjust once the car is on the alignment rig. Due to being obstructed by the wheel, you cannot get a punch into the adjustment dial of the camber bush. It becomes a laborious process of removing the wheel, turning the dial a bit, refitting the wheel, remeasuring alignment angle, then repeat again if you need more adjustment. If there is some type of other tool other than a punch which can be used at a right angle then that would be ideal.

All other installation is straightforward, no other parts needed.

Alignment specs:
Front Left: -1.0deg camber, 0.0mm toe
Front Right: -1.0deg camer, 0.0mm toe
Rear Left: -0.5deg camber, 0.0mm toe
Rear Right: -0.5deg camber, 0.0mm toe
Caster: +6deg20min per side.

Tyres: 42/40psi front/rear (cold)

One thing I did not get to do was weigh the springs to compare any weight saving between the new and the stockies. The bathroom scales simply did not have enough resolution to weigh something that was only 2-3kg, and the kitchen scales only weighed up to a maximum of 2kg.

Ride height: The ride height has dropped by 25mm on the front, and 10mm at the back. I am really happy with this drop as it still retains a good amount of suspension travel, and the back was already fairly low before lowering so I did not want it to go much lower. (Reade reckons it's the 20kg or so of subwoofer enclosure I have in the boot, so this may have *some effect on the ride height)

On road driving: Springs are nicely firm however still very manageable over many of the bumpy slate stones in Port Melbourne. First immediate thought to mind is just how linear these springs feel. They are VERY smooth and have none of the jerkiness of progressive or poorly made springs.

The stock dampers are definately working hard and are not able to adequately dampen the springs on long sweeping corners or gradual, wallowing dips in the road. On small bumps the dampening on bump and rebound stroke is surprisingly acceptable, but there is still room for improvement. This is evidenced by the fact that it is only on the hardest bumps that the bump stops are felt to be working at capacity.

Car sits a lot flatter on single corners, however when trying to make many quick turns in succession such as negotiating chicanes and then a roundabout or driving a zig zag pattern, it is again noticeable that dampers are inadequate.

I hotly anticipate the arrival of the Bilsteins as it will allow the springs to work at their true potential. As I have not been in another Liberty with uprated springs but with stock dampers, I cannot make a comparison as to the cost/benefit of these springs versus Eibach Pro, Tein S or H Tech which are all in the same price range ($500 to $600).

[Arith]

Looks good! No more hideous fender gap!

[teK--]

Thanks Jim; definately the reduced fender gap is noticeable (visually). Now to find that replica STI front lip

[tangcla]

You should have sourced a JDM Spec.B aluminium lower control arm

[Laps]

hmm so you wacked these springs on and it lowered your ride by 25mm...

Did you change the shockys? Is the ride still smooth and comfortable?

[teK--]

Hey Alex you should read the thread I think I went into enough detail

[nytrojen]

Lookin good! Can't wait to see what dif the Bilsteins make once you get em in. The standard car is bloody good as it is. This is just gonna have diabolical handling

[teK--]

Update: The Bilsteins arrived early! This is fantastic as I have a track event next Saturday and so the timing couldn't have been better.

After a hard slog at work all week I managed to get a few hours off in lieu today and once again, it was back to Pedders South Melbourne.

Parts List:
Bilstein B8 Sprint (shortbody, designed for lowered springs):
Front Left: VE3-B833
Front Right: VE3-B834
Rear: BE5-B835

Wheel alignment stayed the same as previous:
Front wheels: 0.0 toe, +6deg47' Caster, -1.0deg camber per wheel
Rear wheels: 0.0 toe, -0.5deg camber per wheel

The dampers went in without any incident, this time the rear springs *did* stay captive unlike when the Swift Springs were used with the stock dampers. When the car was lowered back down from the hoist, I noticed that the ride height was now slightly higher at the front and lower at the back.

If it weren't for the fact that I have read mountains of threads about this scenario when the Americans retrofit Bilsteins to their car, I would have been jumping up and down and screaming WTF!!! So although the situation is not ideal I wasn't naive enough to delve into this project without being prepared for this possibly happening.

The Swift Springs are modelled on the JDM Legacy GT which from factory comes with Bilstein dampers. Swift's charts show these springs to be a 30/25mm Front/Rear drop. I put my experience down to three possibilities:

1) Spring perch height between OEM JDM Subaru Bilstein dampers, and these aftermarket B8 Sprint Dampers, are different.
2) Manufacturing tolerances in the spring/damper/car, or all of the above all stacked up.
3) Voodoo.


Ride height:
After checking with the measuring tape, compared to with Swift Springs and stop dampers the front ride height is now 10mm higher, and the rear is 10mm lower. Compared to stock springs and stock dampers, the car is now 20mm lower at the front, and 25mm lower at the rear. So basically the drop has become more mild then at first when I only had the springs in.

Perhaps everything will settle 5mm one way or another as I bed everything in, but I am still quite happy with having removed most of the fender gap and still retaining a modest level of road clearance.

On road driving:
Grins from ear to ear. I have driven everything from stock dampers to Pedders Sportsryder, Monroes GT, KONI Red, and it is clear why these are the most damn expensive dampers I have ever bought.

Pitch and dive is now almost non existant so there is instant traction to the road when taking off from standstill. Front brakes are not needing to work as hard even for city driving. Corrugations and multiple successive bumps in the road are perfectly tracked and the wheels no longer hop uncontrollably over these road surfaces.

I tried mounting some very low shoulders of roundabouts at speed and the car would not become unsettled, it just went in the direction that I pointed it whilst the right hand side wheels on the car soaked everything up. Having a stock front swaybar is probably a good contributor to this.

The most noticeable difference is when taking long sweepers or when accelerating quickly uphill over a crest. The car feels solidly planted on the ground and there is no longer the unnerving "floaty" feeling (which was present with stock springs/dampers and also with Swift springs/stock dampers).

Notes:
These dampers do not have adjustable damping levels. This is both a pro and con depending on which way you look at it. Depending on how firm the springs are, it can be beneficial to change damping rates to suit the spring. However the con is that unless bump and rebound dampening is individually adjustable (high end dampers only), then changing the setting can be a large case of give or take since you may only want to increase bump without the rebound going up with it, or vice versa.

Conclusion:
The bump and rebound rates for the Bilsteins are perfectly suited for the Swift Springs. The ride is firm but never harsh, and the suspension travel is supple and very linear; I don't feel as I have hit the bump stops as yet. I am looking forward to giving this whole setup a good run at the DECA Motorkhana event next Saturday

The cost of these springs has just gone up on Entra's website, however Nick has advised that if any forum members are interested they can contact him for a special price: nick.slater@entra.com.au



Stage 3 Suspension... Coming in the not so distant future

[teK--]

Because we all love pics

[nytrojen]

Wow... the rear looks a whole heap lower than the fronts! At least you're happy tho. Let us know how they perform on your track day!

[teK--]

Thanks Avon. Yeah even when stock the front is 30mm higher than the rear. With everything fitted now, the front is 35mm higher at the front compared to the rear, so it's pretty much the same as stock.

It may look better to have the front and rear ride height closely matched, but it has a detriment to the car's handling.

[Laps]

What would one have to do to get the front more even to the rear?

[Hotwire]

What would one have to do to get the front more even to the rear?

Install the swift springs on Stock KYB struts, and you will get as per the first fitment here:


Nice and even - so if you fit the swift springs on your stock struts, you will have this level too - just what you are after I would say

[smythie]

Because we all love pics

Much prefer the look of the front wheel in the guard over the rear.