club.liberty.asn.au

MadmanSean wrote:

Niz22 wrote:UPDATE:
Mechanic says for sure its a bottom end internal engine knock, (they've heard enough to know) engine has to come out to diagnose, but most likely looking at a rebuild. Just finalising exact build package before they remove engine and see whats damaged and why.

Damn that sucks if it is the case... if I was you id get a second opinion just to be sure. Pulling engines out for nothing would be annoying...

Its a low end engine knock, there is nothing else externally that's making the noise, they have to pull out the engine. I just have to stick to one shop and go from there, ive already changed from 2 different mechanics in the past 6 months due to stuff arounds. we'll see.

Surge wrote:Pull the sump off and look for metal.

If needing to rebuild the engine, are you going with any upgrades ? Closed deck etc?

yes , if i need to rebuild engine, its going to be full rebuild with ej257 closed deck and all supporting mods to support 400kw on e85. Once i know whats going on, ill post the full setup.

MadmanSean wrote:

Surge wrote:Pull the sump off and look for metal.

If needing to rebuild the engine, are you going with any upgrades ? Closed deck etc?

I'm not familiar with GenV's, is it possible to remove the sump wile engine is in the car?

Closed deck would be awesome! but i doubt the Auto could handle that power potential Haha

Yes this is the problem, the auto ,they are not 100% confident they can get a built tranny to hold around 400kw reliably for a long time. They are close to figuring it out, but not quite. I dont want to go manual, not too sure, ill see what they come up with, I know mick (dr20) had a full auto tranny 5EAT rebuild , just not sure how it held up , for how long and who did it. Ive tried contacting him.

Niz22 wrote:

MadmanSean wrote:

Niz22 wrote:UPDATE:
Mechanic says for sure its a bottom end internal engine knock, (they've heard enough to know) engine has to come out to diagnose, but most likely looking at a rebuild. Just finalising exact build package before they remove engine and see whats damaged and why.

Damn that sucks if it is the case... if I was you id get a second opinion just to be sure. Pulling engines out for nothing would be annoying...

Its a low end engine knock, there is nothing else externally that's making the noise, they have to pull out the engine. I just have to stick to one shop and go from there, ive already changed from 2 different mechanics in the past 6 months due to stuff arounds. we'll see.

I don't doubt the workshop i'm just curious to know how the came to that conclusion?? Seeing as you never posted a log or learning view snapshot i'm skeptical as to how they determined it to be "Low end knock" Haha

Manley Crank sounds like a good way to go

jslayz wrote:Perhaps go a manley billet crank as it has different oiling to the subaru cranks....may be more suited to your driving style

im going to leave the full build in their hands if it comes to it, ive mentioned my driving style and what i want out of it. The 400kw setup has a brand new induction hardened and cross drilled crankshaft, if that means anything.

Niz22 wrote:

MadmanSean wrote:

Surge wrote:Pull the sump off and look for metal.

If needing to rebuild the engine, are you going with any upgrades ? Closed deck etc?

I'm not familiar with GenV's, is it possible to remove the sump wile engine is in the car?

Closed deck would be awesome! but i doubt the Auto could handle that power potential Haha

Yes this is the problem, the auto ,they are not 100% confident they can get a built tranny to hold around 400kw reliably for a long time. They are close to figuring it out, but not quite. I dont want to go manual, not too sure, ill see what they come up with, I know mick (dr20) had a full auto tranny 5EAT rebuild , just not sure how it held up , for how long and who did it. Ive tried contacting him.

Kewish Autos in Dandenong build 5eats with Valve body mods and Special/Extra clutch packs. Alexei Woody has one of their 5eats in his, having driven it i'm in love with the way it shifts. Definitely worthwhile!

MadmanSean wrote:

Niz22 wrote:
Its a low end engine knock, there is nothing else externally that's making the noise, they have to pull out the engine. I just have to stick to one shop and go from there, ive already changed from 2 different mechanics in the past 6 months due to stuff arounds. we'll see.

I don't doubt the workshop i'm just curious to know how the came to that conclusion?? Seeing as you never posted a log or learning view snapshot i'm skeptical as to how they determined it to be "Low end knock" Haha

Manley Crank sounds like a good way to go

[/quote]

no not implying your doubting anything, sorry not too familiar with technical terms, i meant "low end" as in knock from the engine block, so they would have to remove it to find out exactly im assuming. Its a very distinct deep sounding knock. Ill try remember to post logs and LV tonight.

i have attached in a zip file a 1-4th gear WOT log and LV and a 3rd gear WOT pull log and LV . These logs were taken a few months ago when the tune was finished on e85. Everything was fine with the car back then.

also you can see attached 2 of the btssm LV snap shots i took when i first started hearing the engine knocking sound on the highway a few weeks back

As you mentioned, the logs do look fine.

Even the current learningview appears ok, IAM is still 1.
If it's knocking then you would not expect IAM to be at 1.

Also very little timing is pulled only in one part (4800 RPM above 2.7 g/rev).
So how is there any knock?

At this stage hard to fault the tune IMO

I'd still be draining the oil - cut the filter open. If nothing appears off - pull the sump.
When the sump is off it should be easy to feel for bearing play.

Surge wrote:As you mentioned, the logs do look fine.

Even the current learningview appears ok, IAM is still 1.
If it's knocking then you would not expect IAM to be at 1.

Also very little timing is pulled only in one part (4800 RPM above 2.7 g/rev).
So how is there any knock?

At this stage hard to fault the tune IMO

I'd still be draining the oil - cut the filter open. If nothing appears off - pull the sump.
When the sump is off it should be easy to feel for bearing play.

hmm strange, but i never had any timing pulled at that high rpm and load before, i always keep an eye on flkc. occasionally i would get it at under 2600rpm at 1.20 load for some reason , so it seems the LV i took is linked directly to the knock noise i heard as the LV was taken straight after while on the highway. I dont have the car, ill get the mechanics to check filter.

Niz22 wrote:

Surge wrote:As you mentioned, the logs do look fine.

Even the current learningview appears ok, IAM is still 1.
If it's knocking then you would not expect IAM to be at 1.

Also very little timing is pulled only in one part (4800 RPM above 2.7 g/rev).
So how is there any knock?

At this stage hard to fault the tune IMO

I'd still be draining the oil - cut the filter open. If nothing appears off - pull the sump.
When the sump is off it should be easy to feel for bearing play.

hmm strange, but i never had any timing pulled at that high rpm and load before, i always keep an eye on flkc. occasionally i would get it at under 2600rpm at 1.20 load for some reason , so it seems the LV i took is linked directly to the knock noise i heard as the LV was taken straight after while on the highway. I dont have the car, ill get the mechanics to check filter.

Personally i think your mechanic is taking you for a ride... if you can hear knock wile driving on the freeway you have some good ears...

1.2 Load is fairly light load even 2.7 is lightish and your logs show that only 1.4 degrees of timing has been pulled. No more.

If the engine was to knock even at light/high load IAM would reduce to 0.75 or 0.85 depending on the increments set in the tune. Then wile trying to accelerate it would be noticeable that ignition is being retarded as the car would feel torquey but sluggish (Like a Diesel).

I'm with Surge, Drain oil, Cut filter and inspect. Try changing spark plugs aswell, you may have foul'd a plug from running rich afr's wile tuning.

MadmanSean wrote:

Niz22 wrote:

Surge wrote:As you mentioned, the logs do look fine.

Even the current learningview appears ok, IAM is still 1.
If it's knocking then you would not expect IAM to be at 1.

Also very little timing is pulled only in one part (4800 RPM above 2.7 g/rev).
So how is there any knock?

At this stage hard to fault the tune IMO

I'd still be draining the oil - cut the filter open. If nothing appears off - pull the sump.
When the sump is off it should be easy to feel for bearing play.

hmm strange, but i never had any timing pulled at that high rpm and load before, i always keep an eye on flkc. occasionally i would get it at under 2600rpm at 1.20 load for some reason , so it seems the LV i took is linked directly to the knock noise i heard as the LV was taken straight after while on the highway. I dont have the car, ill get the mechanics to check filter.

Personally i think your mechanic is taking you for a ride... if you can hear knock wile driving on the freeway you have some good ears...

1.2 Load is fairly light load even 2.7 is lightish and your logs show that only 1.4 degrees of timing has been pulled. No more.

If the engine was to knock even at light/high load IAM would reduce to 0.75 or 0.85 depending on the increments set in the tune. Then wile trying to accelerate it would be noticeable that ignition is being retarded as the car would feel torquey but sluggish (Like a Diesel).

I'm with Surge, Drain oil, Cut filter and inspect. Try changing spark plugs aswell, you may have foul'd a plug from running rich afr's wile tuning.

The car was sluggish when this knocking event occurred as if i was losing power. I arrived shortly after at my destination, then when i went to turn on the car, there was a loud continuous knocking sound coming from the engine at idle and when revving. I didnt drive it after that, just in case. What else can a knocking sound be coming from the engine?

Where you able to tell what area of the engine the sound was coming from? As saying there was a knocking sound coming from the engine could be anything from heat shields clunking around to the timing belt tensioner clunking about.

I guess you'll just have to see what the mech says now.

MadmanSean wrote:Where you able to tell what area of the engine the sound was coming from? As saying there was a knocking sound coming from the engine could be anything from heat shields clunking around to the timing belt tensioner clunking about.

I guess you'll just have to see what the mech says now.

I dont recall now where the noise was coming from, all i know is it was a very deep hard knocking sound. ill update when they find out.

Hey mate, sorry to hear about this, hope you get it sorted. I'd wait for a proper diagnosis from a competent mechanic before going down the engine build path - maybe you'll get lucky!