V12 Twin Turbo Liberty

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Re: V12 Twin Turbo Liberty

Postby jslayz » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:32 pm

oh sweeeet!
CURRENT - ATP GTX 3576 - 22psi - 283.7awkw
OLD - Dom 1.5Xtr - Last dyno 254ahkw, previous 238ahkw, first 224awkw.
My journey thread: http://forum.liberty.asn.au/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=15523
My Lib Pics here: http://forum.liberty.asn.au/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=15523&start=570#p370656
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Re: V12 Twin Turbo Liberty

Postby kiahatsiu » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:50 pm

I am going to guess it is a VVTi 1uz, and that you are going to put rods and pistons into it. Most likely valve springs too.
Kinda flush. Fitment is something. ADM as F*ck.
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Re: V12 Twin Turbo Liberty

Postby dr20t » Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:40 pm

I'm guessing twin precisions / Garrett's

45mm gates

Bottle
Addicted to corn juice....

My FrankenStien build thread here: viewtopic.php?t=14137
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Re: V12 Twin Turbo Liberty

Postby kiahatsiu » Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:53 pm

I bet big single Garrett. Precision is a dirty word in the Kiks/Cracka/Azboost household.
A vote for me is a vote for buying a nice but cost effective daily to drive around in and push this thing into the shed when it gives you the shits.
Kinda flush. Fitment is something. ADM as F*ck.
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Re: V12 Twin Turbo Liberty

Postby jslayz » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:14 pm

kiahatsiu wrote:I bet big single Garrett. Precision is a dirty word in the Kiks/Cracka/Azboost household.
A vote for me is a vote for buying a nice but cost effective daily to drive around in and push this thing into the shed when it gives you the shits.



Daily so you can go harder....sounds like a good idea! I may do this.
CURRENT - ATP GTX 3576 - 22psi - 283.7awkw
OLD - Dom 1.5Xtr - Last dyno 254ahkw, previous 238ahkw, first 224awkw.
My journey thread: http://forum.liberty.asn.au/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=15523
My Lib Pics here: http://forum.liberty.asn.au/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=15523&start=570#p370656
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Re: V12 Twin Turbo Liberty

Postby kiks » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:43 pm

kiahatsiu wrote:I am going to guess it is a VVTi 1uz, and that you are going to put rods and pistons into it. Most likely valve springs too.


Dingdingdingdingding.

Well in reality it will sit in the shed for a year while I wait for a set of unused argo/carillos to rock up on ebay or something somewhere in the world cheap. Have everything else ready to go for assembly.

VVTI wont give amazeballs LSX376 power, but it'd make it an absolute weapon for mid range with a free 120+hp up top from the nicer heads and intake angles.

dr20t wrote:I'm guessing twin precisions / Garrett's

45mm gates

Bottle

:shock:
Wash your filthy whore mouth out now. :bad:

Turbo on it now (4094 with 1.19 T4 divided) is a little too big for 450hp, it's a little lazy.

Lazy turbo on a 4L v8 in a 1300ish kg ute is not exactly slow, it just doesnt peel lines at 100kmh. It's still ferocious, puts on speed very rapidly like no ute has any right to. But at 100kmh in 3rd, if you floor it it takes 3-4 seconds for it to come on the gate and squirms the bum end a little. Would be nice if it just loaded up pretty much instantly so it'd get the tyres turning. 2nd is instantaneous 15psi and pulling hard to the horizon....but it's a lot of effort to push a lever backwards to put in 2nd :roll:

I'm in several minds about this:

Option 1) Use my V12/1GZ converter and bellhousing (it's fucking huge) with maybe a 3500-4000rpm stall, but huge lockup clutches so it's still very livable at cruise, would wake the thing up a bit and get some torque multiplication going on and get it on the gate earlier speed wise. Being such a massive converter compared to the current one would be nice for fluid temps.

Option 2) Buy a GTX4088R CHRA and throw it in. 6mm smaller compressor OD so a fair bit less inertia. Sell the 4094, shouldnt be a hard thing to move. It's also billet wheeled so that's good for people who know fuck all about turbos to tell me it's a good thing. Would be same rear housing, and require nil extra time on dyno as it'd be fairly simple to trim it a few digits from some logs.

Option 3) GT3788R and a 1.09 bum, but that means fab work setting wastegate outlet up off housing etc. Bit of a cunt to get it spot on as its plumbed back...Good excuse for a screamer though. Would be maniacle, dont think the rods could handle it though, or the exhaust valve springs from the extra backpressure running that AR on such a small wheel.

I think option 1 is smartest. Every single person 'in the know' says option 2 is smartest. Which means doing 2 is best, cheapest, most forward thinking way...So I'll probably do 1 and then have to do 2.

But currently it has no fluid temp issues, auto tranny gets up to 82-83deg C after several 250+kmh wheelspeed burnouts and driving up mountains and shit. Current converter is a Geoff Dell hand built thing, it's fuckin magic for the car. Cruises @ 100kmh @ 2150rpm, and it doesnt have lockup clutches in it. It's brilliant.
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Re: V12 Twin Turbo Liberty

Postby kiks » Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:57 pm

I was wrong.

Finally got around to actually looking for the exhaust leak.

One would assume it is in the gasketless 3 bolt joints on the 3.5" down pipe.

No, it was hiding. Somewhere really hard to find.

With the ute on the hoist in 3rd and my foot to the floor on the brakes, and coming up on boost on the converter the leak reared it's head... In the Subaru bellowed flex joint in the right bank up pipe.

Now you might not think this is a big issue, but flow and pressure are two very different things. A leak means all of the flow, none of the pressure. Pressure differential (from mass flow, gas expansion and heat retention) across the turbine is what makes turbos work. This cunt 4094r was like it was only ever being driven by a 2L engine with one scroll working properly.

After welding that up it blew an intercooler off at unknown boost, and after fixing and changing the base duty cycle of the boost control, it now still peaks at 19.1-19.2 psi (need to adjust more so it'll be bang on 15.5). What does a working turbo do? Paint fuckin lines, at 80+ kmh with ease. That explains why it put on 24mph from half track but only trapped at 116mph instead of 125-127 like it should, and could only leave the line with 2.2psi. Easily makes another 120hp from 3000rpm, and probably another 50-60 in the top end in 2nd from the extra 2 pounds.

Fuck I'm impressed with the old girl now, totally transformed the car, and as the leak was only real bad under boost, it's sort of obvious. Just wasn't thinking straight and expected it to be one of the shitty flanges.

Hoping next time down the track it'll make 6-7psi on the footbrake and leave the line with 400hp not 200.

Lessons learnt eh!
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Re: V12 Twin Turbo Liberty

Postby Boostaddict » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:40 pm

Wow. Sounds like common sense doesnt always work !!

But getting on the brake always does!! I like

This thread needs more vids of said line painting.!!
Not a Subaru...... Something MUCH better

NOPE..... That's shit too. Bus anyone??
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Re: V12 Twin Turbo Liberty

Postby dr20t » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:46 pm

Interesting Ian

Might partly explain my boost issue. I've always suspected an exhaust leak on mine and now I will need to examine thoroughly to confirm

Great to see its reaching its glory
Addicted to corn juice....

My FrankenStien build thread here: viewtopic.php?t=14137
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Re: V12 Twin Turbo Liberty

Postby bigBADbenny » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:19 pm

The leak was found in a stainless braid covered type flex join?
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Re: V12 Twin Turbo Liberty

Postby kiks » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:30 pm

It's a subaru bellowed joint, unbraided. Replaced it with a braided one (same shit, just with steel braid on outside). See how long it lasts and might just put solid pipe in next time and let the expansion be taken up by the bends and the manifold studs crying.

Just food for thought, never imagined it would be in the up pipe as it's all very rigid. The fact it comes apart so badly with exh manifold pressure was now in hindsight the first thing I should of looked for (and cared about more in the first place).

But yeah, the fact it was increased linearly with rpm etc made me think just generic leak at the downpipe somewhere. Obviously cant hear it getting much worse under boost because turbo makes very loud turbo noises. Either way, is fixed now and it's a good lesson to anyone reading...Before going off on a hissy fit have a very good look at the basics :lol: Cant wait to have another crack in a few weeks once I sort some other shit out.

Video for reference was before the fix, you can see just how lazy it is off the line. Logs show why, it only hit full boost in 1st by 5000rpm. Also hit limiter in 2nd but meh (no tacho or shift light set up yet, all by noise and 6th sense). Still a 1.9sec '60 but by no means what it should be doing (1.6 I'd want ideally for a high deep 11)



Log of one of the runs for interests sake.
Image

Anyway I have a very clear few things to knock off the list before going back.

Tyres:
Replace the Federal 595 SS. 595SS is a fairly hard wearing, moderate performance tyre. They're good for shopping trolleys used for the odd fang. Never expected them to even be capable of a 1.9 60', they're on as they're good for turning to smoke and adding black lines to roads I travel (I swear you don't need a traditional native tracker to find where I've been...). And cost me nearly nothing because of a good mate owning a tyre store who happens to enjoy his wares being vaporised. Federal 595 RSR's on the V12 liberty did a 1.70 60' with ease, just rolling off the brake at idle so the stiff sidewall didnt really affect anything as you didnt need the sidewalls to take up the shock. I was always impressed by that and how easy it did it. Ute makes much less torque under 3000 so it cant do the same party tricks. So they can be excellent, and I loved the RSR's on the street.

I'm thinking of trying out the Toyo TQ's. Theyre jap made, should suit it well. Plenty of guys in the states and japan getting good results with them and in a 17 they're reportedly better than a mickey thompson ET street. And cheaper. And Im a tightarse.

The other idea is I could find some 15" convos or something and use them at the drags and keep skid tyres on it for the street. But that means taking tyres in the back and doing anything more than throwing out the half empty icebreak bottles and winding the windows up prior to lining up.

Rear suspension:
Leaf bind is killer. I don't want to destroy a uni, or have all the nasty shit continuing. Mob down in hillcrest brissy have a solition sorted, just need to take the ute down there. Will be a stiff front inverted leaf ontop of the stack and removal of the bottom two leaves, lowering blocks and new bushes. I want to avoid caltracs as they stick out like dogs balls.

Vehicle speed sensor:
Run an input to the haltech from the gearbox (dash speedo is gps) so I can log everything vs road speed and further fine tune stuff.
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Re: V12 Twin Turbo Liberty

Postby Boostaddict » Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:22 pm

Thats awesome.

Is that yours spooling in the video??

And i want some inside car and "private closed roads" stuff.

When My Lib was RWD it painted lines well in 2nd as well .!!

I think there is some pics of said "private rd" line painting in my build thread.
Not a Subaru...... Something MUCH better

NOPE..... That's shit too. Bus anyone??
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Re: V12 Twin Turbo Liberty

Postby kiks » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:59 pm

Yeah, makes good spooly whoosh noise. Will shut it up with an airbox one day; very low priority as it's very quite unless you're up it.
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Re: V12 Twin Turbo Liberty

Postby dr20t » Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:15 pm

Update cracka
Addicted to corn juice....

My FrankenStien build thread here: viewtopic.php?t=14137
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Re: V12 Twin Turbo Liberty

Postby kiks » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:03 pm

dr20t wrote:Update cracka


No.

This is currently the fastest V7 Single Turbo HQ in austraila.

Suspect split bore or cracked head. Give no fucks for pulling engine right now so it's got an inch of dust on her.

Next step is engine out, fresh engine in. 25psi and 9's or 11's....don't care which, just not a 10.
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