MY04 Liberty GT - FrankenStien - EOI welcome / FS

[cliffo3rb]

Great read Mick. Hope this all works out and releases the true potential of this beast.

[HardwareBoB]

What a pain in the ass!

Glad you finally got your resolution, looking forward to some good results and more importantly, happier driving.

[bigBADbenny]

That's a good spotto!
How is it even possible to have the cams off in that way.
I had thought that the cam gears index onto the end of the cams with a keyway or similar...
Time to hit the books!

[dr20t]

They do Benny. But the actual cam timing wth respect to crank can still be out if the cam gears are not lined up correctly or if they moved when belt was being installed

Explains my 250kms to full tank, the sluggish low end, the rough idle etc

[Shakibsaifi]

Mick update us when your at wsid, everytime i go you're not there :'(

[KiDo_Tuning]

They do Benny. But the actual cam timing wth respect to crank can still be out if the cam gears are not lined up correctly or if they moved when belt was being installed

Explains my 250kms to full tank, the sluggish low end, the rough idle etc

Yeah explains a LOT
I think we discussed this that time your car stalled and you had your son in the car if it had possibly jumped a tooth. Static cam timing when engine is off sometimes wont line up due to oil pressure. NASIOC has a great thread on the belt teeth between the cam gear notches thats great for Dual AVCS

So it was just one tooth out on each exhaust cam gear? Lucky you had not lipped a valve playing with exhaust AVCS timing!

15 and 12 degrees may be just because the cams were not aligned with lack of oil pressure when engine went off.

[jslayz]

This is very interesting!

I may also have to do this check too.
Hopefully I can do it over the next few weeks.

Hmmmm......

[dr20t]

I dont think its skipped a tooth Matt. I believe this is how it was setup.

I think I have my measurements wrong as I measured collectively off crank timing (using marks on the timing cover) so it may be 6 and 8 degrees out.

Also - just FYI - the avcs timing you used is completely different to mine in load ranges 0 to 3.5 and 0-5200rpm. There are only four common cells, and these are the exhaust avcs cruise table low load low revs "EGR effect" cells for cruising at low throttle (exhaust valve retarded 40 degrees in these cells)

I feel there is ALOT to be gained with proper avcs tuning on these engines, particularly with dual avcs, and I don't believe any tuner at all in this country has fully understood this as yet.

Happy to be proven wrong but my overlay of valve timing with actual valve opening times and duration, combined with static compression, shows me most tuners are actually diminishing torque on the avcs engines.

Also FYI - I've changed fueling on spool from where it was and it made a difference

Im going to be testing more this weekend, but I am very confident I can get this turbo to full spool (28psi) in third gear by 3800rpm.

[KiDo_Tuning]

I dont think its skipped a tooth Matt. I believe this is how it was setup.

I think I have my measurements wrong as I measured collectively off crank timing (using marks on the timing cover) so it may be 6 and 8 degrees out.

Also - just FYI - the avcs timing you used is completely different to mine in load ranges 0 to 3.5 and 0-5200rpm. There are only four common cells, and these are the exhaust avcs cruise table low load low revs "EGR effect" cells for cruising at low throttle (exhaust valve retarded 40 degrees in these cells)

I feel there is ALOT to be gained with proper avcs tuning on these engines, particularly with dual avcs, and I don't believe any tuner at all in this country has fully understood this as yet.

Happy to be proven wrong but my overlay of valve timing with actual valve opening times and duration, combined with static compression, shows me most tuners are actually diminishing torque on the avcs engines.

Also FYI - I've changed fueling on spool from where it was and it made a difference

Im going to be testing more this weekend, but I am very confident I can get this turbo to full spool (28psi) in third gear by 3800rpm.

We had an EJ207 doing this sort of spool already admitted in a manual though remember? Thats why we discussed fitting this engine all that time ago. Same turbo sizing, manual was 24psi at 3500rpm and albeit your cams are different its not that far off where it should be

[<GB>]

msr always says the key to these engines is in the cam timing

[dr20t]

Matt I hear what but if that's the case I'm puzzled why then was mine spooling at 4200 even with the 0.63 housing? I know the cam timing being out wouldn't help but surely compensating for this with avcs tuning would've helped when you were tuning it?

Its been on the dyno four or five times now since engine was in, and still wasnt right.

So whilst the static cam timing is out by 6 and 8 degrees, this should mean the cam timing you used would only have been 12 to 16 degrees different at most (allowing 6 and 8 degrees of advance/ retard either way). In other words I should only have had to adjust your cam timing tables by 12 or 16 degrees to get it optimized.

This isn't the case as its more or less than that in some regions.

Not having a dig but trying to understand whether I've missed something or maybe you did?

Anyway - GB I've updated the avcs tuning thread too. To me and this may sound arrogant but I'm still yet to see a fully optimized DUAL avcs table for a Subaru. Some tuners have the single avcs down pat (Matt, Scott and msr being some of them) but haven't seen the duals done right

[Deep Heat]

but haven't seen the duals done right

I could do it in a night with enough weed.

Hats off to you though for figuring it out.

[kiahatsiu]

Progress!!!

[dr20t]

Now logging 28.5 psi @ 3820rpm in 3rd gear and 28.5psi @3690rpm in 4th

Both were done warm (ie warm headers after one or two slight 2nd/3rd gear pulls)

To put it in perspective at 28.5psi at 3700rpm I'm flowing 400g/second of airflow, which quickly rises to. Peak of 640+g/s after 5000rpm.

In 3rd, I am reaching 7 psi by 2800, 14psi by 3300rpm. Whilst that might seem laggy, at 7psi I'm still flowing over 200g/second.

Because of the earlier spool I was getting compressor surge, which I've now eliminated with the tune by setting up a mini egr just before peak torque.

Power band is therefore from 3500rpm to 8400rpm.

This is with 2.3 degrees less ignition timing across top half of the timing table. (Edited as previously said bottom half which is wrong - kept same values in bottom half notwithstanding some work can be done to optimise this further)

Still working on my maf scaling and ve table to optimise but I'm fairly happy with this result.

[peadya100]

Wow!
This thing is going to be a weapon Mick!
We'll have to organise another drag night once you get it all sorted.